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High-Pitched sound in recordings and speakers with a Zoom-R16 when connected USB-Ethernet

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Re: High-Pitched sound in recordings and speakers with a Zoom-R16 when connected USB-Ethernet

Postby James Perrett » Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:05 pm

Are you hearing the clicks when monitoring the inputs of the R-16 directly (with the balance control above the master fader fully anti-clockwise)? If you are monitoring the audio after going through the computer then, even if not recording, it is still probably a buffer issue.
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Re: High-Pitched sound in recordings and speakers with a Zoom-R16 when connected USB-Ethernet

Postby robertkjr3d » Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:44 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:So just to clarify, can you conform or correct the following:

The R16 is making click-free recordings from the amp on its own.

The clicks are heard/recorded in the R16 when connected via USB to a (grounded) computer.

Clicks are heard when the sub/LFE channel is not connected to the R16 via a DI /transformer isolator.

I'm sure it's obvious, but if the above is correct there will still be a ground loop between the computer and amplifier.
1) The R16 is making click-free recordings from the amp on its own.
Yes
2) The clicks are heard/recorded in the R16 when connected via USB to a (grounded) computer.
Yes
3) Clicks are heard when the sub/LFE channel is not connected to the R16 via a DI /transformer isolator.
Your 3rd item is confusing to me too. (as you have written it)
I brought up the 'sub' channel because it is a straight connection. It comes out of the receiver as a RCA/Composite cable. It is not speaker-level. It is not sent through a DI-Box. And if not sent through a 'ground-loop-isolator' either, you can see noise on the line. That is when the USB cable is connected (and cubase is running).

The other lines likely have the same noise as well, only it is suppressed. It shows up as pops and clicks. This is the same item that brought up the original posting.

I've already purchased the USB-item. Mentioned a few posts ago.
Its supposed to handle (ground-loops, Electritcal noise caused by power-over-USB). It'll make it so I'll power the 'R16' through an USB-C 5V charger instead of the computer or the USB-Extender.
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Re: High-Pitched sound in recordings and speakers with a Zoom-R16 when connected USB-Ethernet

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:55 pm

robertkjr3d wrote:I brought up the 'sub' channel because it is a straight connection. It comes out of the receiver as a RCA/Composite cable. It is not speaker-level. It is not sent through a DI-Box. And if not sent through a 'ground-loop-isolator' either, you can see noise on the line. That is when the USB cable is connected (and cubase is running).

As mentioned above, without a ground loop isolator, this connection will be making a ground loop between the computer and amp... And ground loops result in unwanted noises...

There is zero point in isolating some channels and not others... All six outputs need to pass through isolators or one form or another. Personally, I'd run them all through DI boxes (the attenuator would be set at 0dB for the RCA sub output.

I've already purchased the USB-item.

Hopefully it will solve your problem without introducing another.
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Re: High-Pitched sound in recordings and speakers with a Zoom-R16 when connected USB-Ethernet

Postby robertkjr3d » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:53 pm

While I'm waiting on that....
I will post that: Besides some misgivings on the part of some on this.

It is a working system. And with some editing, the following piece is from star-trek is very difficult to tell from the original source materal. It would be nice to see if I can record in even better format like even 48000 samples or 96... but this was recorded in 44100.

Image

I suppose if I recorded a two-channel piece... turned off the sub-woofer (so that there was no cross-over-point issues). Posted just a few-seconds, and in a format that more people could understand, instead of these multi-track formats. That wouldn't violate any big issues here, and you could see this device is on the level.

Note: Its hard to get the gain knobs on the 'Zoom R16' to be at just the right spot for each channel. I wish there were more lines drawn with numbers next to it. Or stop spots on the gains. So you could tell you were in exactly the same spot for matching some channels. I'm sure I'll get a groove at it eventually.
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Re: High-Pitched sound in recordings and speakers with a Zoom-R16 when connected USB-Ethernet

Postby robertkjr3d » Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:32 am

Update...
As Hugh suspected. The IFI-USB device did nothing. I'll return it.

And upon further testing:
My problem may be closer (or was) to do with buffering and/or just can't handle the traffic load with the extender. I believe Hugh, tried to suggest as much.

I started testing at 88200/24bit/512-buffer.
... And received no clips and/or pops!

There is noises that the 'R16' picks up when not running anything, as mentioned (at least visibly, or audibly, if I jam the headphone volume all the way), especially when the USB is connected. However, when enough 'signal' is applied, then the 'signal to noise' ratio is good enough. Even the very quiet parts of music-pieces are good.

I did promise to post a 2-CH piece... I'll get to it.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP!!

:clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: High-Pitched sound in recordings and speakers with a Zoom-R16 when connected USB-Ethernet

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:08 am

:thumbup: 8-)
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Re: High-Pitched sound in recordings and speakers with a Zoom-R16 when connected USB-Ethernet

Postby robertkjr3d » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:11 pm

Here is the Stereo 2-CH piece I was promising.
It is 38seconds of 'Uncharted' by 'Sara Bareilles'.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wUJJOa1EigWrIoq9d1eLl00ZnNMumFIz/view?usp=sharing 13.4mb FLAC format.
Source was a MP3 --- now recorded through the box.

What's different? Since this was a completely different process, than the multi-channel recordings. I missed a step, and forgot to turn off the 'Room-Correction' and 'Equalizer'.
So the vocals are a little louder in the recording than in the .mp3, thats the first thing I noticed. Will I do it again, to correct it? No.

Here are comparison graphs... the box on top. The original below.
Image

By the way I am keeping the USB-IFI. In testing, the sound seems to be just a hair better with it, than with-out it. Maybe that's just in my head.

I do have a question: How would I redesign the box to have only 1-Switch? Or possibly 2. I say 2, because the sub-channel should probably still be handled separately, as it comes from the receiver (RCA), not banana-plug/speaker-level. Now I wouldn't consider doing this until next year. The wife would not want me to spend any more time with wires and stuff all over the living room... anytime soon hehe. Maybe they make some sorta switch-arrays. Of course, they would need to be decent voltage requirements, with good wire gauge. In the course of this, we did figure out that the 'left', 'right', 'Center'... speakers all share the 'negative' wire. But I should still be careful how, or if I wire them together, because it could cause cross-talk.
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Re: High-Pitched sound in recordings and speakers with a Zoom-R16 when connected USB-Ethernet

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:34 pm

robertkjr3d wrote:I do have a question: How would I redesign the box to have only 1-Switch? Or possibly 2.

The obvious solution is suitably heavy-duty relays for the signal paths, all controlled from one or two switches as you suggest, with a suitable power source to activate the relays.
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Re: High-Pitched sound in recordings and speakers with a Zoom-R16 when connected USB-Ethernet

Postby robertkjr3d » Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:18 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
robertkjr3d wrote:I do have a question: How would I redesign the box to have only 1-Switch? Or possibly 2.

The obvious solution is suitably heavy-duty relays for the signal paths, all controlled from one or two switches as you suggest, with a suitable power source to activate the relays.
I'm having trouble even googling this. What am I even looking for? I tried multichannel relay, that didn't work.
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Re: High-Pitched sound in recordings and speakers with a Zoom-R16 when connected USB-Ethernet

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:25 pm

It would need to be custom-built, using individual relays for each channel with contacts capable of handling the power output of the amplifier.
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Re: High-Pitched sound in recordings and speakers with a Zoom-R16 when connected USB-Ethernet

Postby robertkjr3d » Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:50 pm

So I've found that for the 2 (Dual-DI-Boxes) that I have...
I found that only one-side has to be switched to 'ground-lift' the other-side 'ground'.

I think its because of the internal wiring:
Image
Both sides are wired to the chasis. If I flip both sides, the same (on ground-lift). It cross connects... enough that I can hear it on certain select frequencies. There is some metallic sounds.

The original noise issue seems to still be taken care of... regardless.

Note: That image above comes from a amazon-customer-review.
2nd Note: I also have a Single-DI-Box. I have two duals. And one-single.

Btw...(todo with my last posting) I have found that I can change my switch-wiring to 3P3T.... Then I would need just 2-Switches. One like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IZ5ZFYC/?coliid=I3GZWBX6I5LE2F&colid=14YX646C3B5PW&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

But... I'm not in a hurry to do so.
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