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Need Help with Acoustic Treatment

Postby GodoyEze1987 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:37 pm

Hey Everybody !!

I need your help with my Bedroom Home Studio.

Going to start adding acoustic treatment and I wanted to get everyone's opinions on what I have in mind and see what everybody on here thinks.

Main Problem: It has ZERO acoustic treatment and if I clap I can hear ring echoes for about 3 seconds.

Studio Uses: Will be used for Mixing and some recording but mainly single instruments and voices, nothing too big for the moment, and anything too big will probably be done at a real studio.

I have linked or pasted in pictures for your guys to see what I have to work with.

The Floor : I will be getting a carpet about the size of the desk.
The Roof: I will be getting 2 x 120cm x 60cm panels and installing them right over the desk
Behind Speakers: Regular Acoustic Foam Material covering most of the wall behind the speakers
Across Speakers: Will be getting 25x25 wedges foam material that will, I think, work kind of like a diffuser because they have different angles.
Sides of Speakers: On one side I am obligated to have curtains due to the closet but I don't know what to do with the other side.
I use the same type of curtain so that the sides have the same acoustic treatment.
I can just put regular acoustic foam.

I don't know what I should do for bass traps. I think maybe just put one in each upper corner on the sidewall and one corner next to the door because the side with the closet will have a curtain and I won't be able to place a bass trap there.

Thanks for all your help and attention !!






https://photos.app.goo.gl/R3M7wgd8hwCoM8zB6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/VxNCU4hXoAg7bqZ27
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pM7t9RQpPg5VGcG2A
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Re: Need Help with Acoustic Treatment

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:47 pm

Hi and welcome. How good at DIY are you? Making effective acoustic panels is not difficult and saves about ⅓ of the cost of buying them in. Your 120 x 60 panels are a standard size, 50 0r 100mm thick and spaced 40-50 mm off the surface) and two on the ceiling at the mirror point over the mix position/desk is a good start. I would try to use similar at the other mirror points* where possible (windows and doors are a pain :headbang: ) and try to put one in any other large untreated surface. Then install as many bass traps, constructed from Rockwool, as possible, you can't have too many in a small room.

This is my room (again, sorry I'm not blowing my own trombone really but if I can do it anybody can), note panels above and to the sides, and bass traps in the vertical corners either side of the desk. I intend to add some additional panels in the large-ish areas either side of the ceiling cloud and next to and behind the drum kit (about three 1200 x 600mm and another three 600 x 600mm, the latter just out of shot to the right).

Image

* anywhere that if you placed a mirror you would see your speakers in it when sitting at the mix position.
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Re: Need Help with Acoustic Treatment

Postby GodoyEze1987 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:13 pm

Hey Sam,

Great Studio. Yeah, I am pretty crafty..should be able to build them I'll check online for a how-to guide.

Now, I have two questions. Across the room facing the speakers should I just put two panels or should I go from some type of diffusing panels ??

Also, will having an acoustic curtain on one side and having an acoustic panel on the other mess with my stereo image. I mean there isn't much I can do but I figured I'd ask.

Also, Installing those types of bass traps will not work in my situation 3 of the 4 corners have a door or a closet, or a window that will get in the way. Can you recommend any alternatives?

Last one, should I use Rockwool for all the panels or just bass traps ??

Thanks again for the advice !!
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Re: Need Help with Acoustic Treatment

Postby Luke W » Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:54 pm

GodoyEze1987 wrote:Yeah, I am pretty crafty..should be able to build them I'll check online for a how-to guide.

Have a search around on here, there's plenty of threads detailing how people have made their panels. Be a little careful searching the internet on the whole, there are some guides around that'll help you to build something less than useful!

GodoyEze1987 wrote:Now, I have two questions. Across the room facing the speakers should I just put two panels or should I go from some type of diffusing panels ??

Diffusion is a rather complex subject, and you need a fairly large room for it to be useful, so my thoughts would be that it's probably best to stick with standard absorption panels.

GodoyEze1987 wrote:Also, will having an acoustic curtain on one side and having an acoustic panel on the other mess with my stereo image. I mean there isn't much I can do but I figured I'd ask.

You'll always be better off with everything being symmetrical, but it's not always possible/practical, and having any treatment at all at the mirror points each side of you will be an improvement over nothing at all. If fixing a panel in place is the issue, it could be worth building a freestanding one that you can move in and out of place as you need.

GodoyEze1987 wrote:Last one, should I use Rockwool for all the panels or just bass traps ??


I used Rockwool for all of mine, it's done the trick very nicely.

Lastly, going back to your first post, I wouldn't bother with a carpet (if it was for sound purposes anyway), check out some pictures of really nice, well designed control rooms and you'll notice nearly all of them have wooden/laminate floors. :thumbup:
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Re: Need Help with Acoustic Treatment

Postby RichardT » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:06 pm

I’d second what Luke says - rock wool panels in my experience give better results than foam.

In terms of bass traps - the location of these isn’t too critical. The reason for putting them in the corners is that bass energy tends to pool there and so they work quite effectively. But they can work fine elsewhere. I have only 2 corner traps in my studio but with traps in other locations I still get good results.
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Re: Need Help with Acoustic Treatment

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:43 pm

Yup, agree. Bass traps are more efficient at a junction, wall/wall, wall/ceiling or wall/floor and will help wherever you put them. Symmetry is good, assuming the curtain is for a window, as Luke says can you fit a moveable panel over the window when mixing?

But if the cosmetics are acceptable then my DIY panels cost me a £340 in total. The Gig Art panels I linked to are more expensive but could be an acceptable alternative where acoustic panels are not acceptable.

As I said elsewhere as few as three panels will make a useful improvement, especially if you have small monitors and don't rely on them alone to judge bass levels in a mix (supplement them with a decent pair of headphones for that job at least).
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Re: Need Help with Acoustic Treatment

Postby GodoyEze1987 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:25 pm

Hey guys!! Thanks for the replies and all the info. I will be building the panels with rockwool but will get back to here before purchasing anything to see what you guys think. Thanks again and have a great weekend.
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Re: Need Help with Acoustic Treatment

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:57 pm

I drew a sketch detailing the, very simple, construction method I used for my broadband absorber panels, happy to repost if you need it. 'Proper' covering fabric makes getting a good finish much easier as does using medium density Rockwool batts which are rigid enough to be self supporting in a ceiling panel. I used "Camira Cara" fabric and 60kg/m3 Rockwool RW3 and am very happy with the result.
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Re: Need Help with Acoustic Treatment

Postby GodoyEze1987 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:24 pm

Sure Sam.. I would really appreciate the repost :)
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Re: Need Help with Acoustic Treatment

Postby Sam Spoons » Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:12 pm

No problem :-

Image

I used 50mm thick Rockwool RW3 (60 kg/m3) and Camina Cara fabric but Owens Corning do a similar product to Rockwool. I put 44mm battens across the back, partly to stiffen the frame but mostly to space them off the wall and give me something to fix them with. You could use similar construction for the corner bass traps and just fill the void with RW but I cut my RW into triangles and stacked them with the cut edges facing into the room (Studiotips Super Chunks http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=535). The basic frame for the bass traps can be the same but mine had plywood triangles top, bottom and mid hight as they were 2m tall and the RW needed some additional support.

HTH
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Re: Need Help with Acoustic Treatment

Postby blinddrew » Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:02 pm

I took a very similar approach to Sam but with 100mm rockwool panels. If I've got this link right you can see a panel inconstruction here: https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... 65#p637794 complete with the holding straps to give the rockwool a bit of support. Not sure they actually needed them as 1 year on nothing is showing any signs of sagging. But it only cost some cloth offcuts and staples.
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Re: Need Help with Acoustic Treatment

Postby GodoyEze1987 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:15 am

Hey Guys.. Thanks again for the advice.
Getting ready to order the rockwool and wood this weekend for the build. Just have some final questions.

ROCKWOOL.--I can get it from 40 to 120mm thickand density is usually 39 to 70 kg/m3. What would be the best buy for these. They are all panels with dimension at 1.35 by 60.

Wood: well the only question I have with the wood if that I have only found it at about 100m depth. So if I end up buying let's say 60m thick would 100m of space for the 60 m rockwool be to loose. If not, do I glue the rockwool to the sides or but a back brace to keep it tight in the oanel or just let it loose?

Last question is do you guys know in European online stores where I can get mounting kits for vertical and horizontal panels?

Thanks again for the help
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Re: Need Help with Acoustic Treatment

Postby blinddrew » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:28 am

Aim for density of 60kg/m3 - it's the best combination of absorption and internal stiffness.

Depth comes down to your space and how much you have to work with. From an acoustic perspective, the deeper the better. A 100mm thick panel will be effective down to lower frequencies than a 50mm panel.
But...
It's not just about the panel thickness, it's also about the distance from the wall. A 50mm panel, 50mm away from the wall, will be almost as effective as a 100mm panel right against the wall.

So how much space have you got?

In terms of the surrounding wood, this will also depend on your wall spacing.
For example, let's say you have a panel that the usual 600x1200 and is 100mm deep. Now let's make a frame of wood that's also 100mm deep, so the sides are completely covered.
If you put that right against the wall, the only absorbing area is the front face of the panel.
If you mount it off the wall, then the back face comes into effect as well for any sound that comes in at an angle and bounces off the wall and into the back of the panel.
If you have the same 100mm panel of rock wool and you use a 50mm frame, then half of the side wall of the panel is also available as an absorber.

So if you decide that you can only fit 100mm of absorption in your space, for example, but the best price wood you can get is 100mm deep, then you'd make a panel that spaces the rockwool in the front of the panel, with a gap behind it. The panel will be more effective though if you cut large holes out of the frame material to allow air to pass in and out through the side walls as well.

Hope that makes sense.

Afraid I can't help with the suppliers in Europe though.
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Re: Need Help with Acoustic Treatment

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:10 am

As Drew says (and I said above) Rockwool RW3, 60kg/m3 is optimum density, I used 50 mm thick and simply made my frames a couple of mm undersized for the 1200 x 600 mm panels, the panels wedge quite securely in the frames and fabric front and back has proves sufficient to keep it there.
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Re: Need Help with Acoustic Treatment

Postby GodoyEze1987 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:21 pm

Hey guys, thanks for the info.

Hey Sam, yes I remember you posted before but I can't get that same rockwool model here in France. I have checked and called suppliers in the UK but they don't deliver to France.

I have to double check the store but last time I went I only found 100mm for the wood but I will double check Saturday morning.

Also, if I can't get that rockwool model, RW3,
I have the regular rockwool which I can get 100m thick but only available in 39k density.

Or, I have to get 40mm thick with 70k density.

And yes, 100 mm is my limit haha. The room is small.

Thanks for the advice!!

Unless you guys know of a rockwol RW3 supplier that ships to France, I am out of luck
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