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How do I connect Lexicon M200 to Mixwizard 3?

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Re: How do I connect Lexicon M200 to Mixwizard 3?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:22 am

mikehende wrote:It sounds a hell of a lot better and works to perfection running the PC's OUT directly into the fx machines then back out into the line. I don't get why everyone is against this if this is the way it sounds best, I just don't get that??

No one is against it. You should do whatever sounds best, and works best, for you.

All they are saying is that the standard 'professional' approach is to run reverb effects in a send/return configuration using aux sends to route the source(s) to the reverb and extra desk channels to bring back the 'wet' reverb signal(s).

This configuration allows the dry/wet balance to be controlled on faders, and allows multiple sources to share the effects processors in the the most flexible way. (This naturally assumes the reverb unit is set up appropriately to function correctly in this arrangement).

However, if you prefer to run the source directly through the reverb processor(s) that can work too. Your control of the effect and the dry/wet balance then resides entirely on the processor itself.

To work this way you also have the option of wiring the effects processor(s) directly between the source and the console. Or, with the right cabling, you could insert the processors into the desk channel's signal path using the console channel inserts. There are minor pros and cons to both techniques.

It would be well worth your while finding and reading a book on basic studio techniques to build an understanding of how consoles work and typical studio configurations since these appear to be new concepts to you.

There are many to pick from, but one that I grew up with and which still provides a good, solid foundation is: The Sound Studio by Alec Nisbett

Image

Amazon.com link:
https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Studio-techniques-Television-Recording-ebook/dp/B00P2OJG9U/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Sound+Studio%3A+Audio+techniques+for+Radio%2C+Television%2C+Film+and+Recording+Paperback+%E2%80%93+7&qid=1615368112&sr=8-1
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Re: How do I connect Lexicon M200 to Mixwizard 3?

Postby CS70 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:29 am

mikehende wrote: I don't get why everyone is against this if this is the way it sounds best, I just don't get that??

Experience.

Both configurations can be made to work in certain circumstances, and have pro and cons.
For typical studio and mixing jobs, the parallel send/return tends to have more pro than the other, and less cons. When (if) you will hit these situations, you will understand why.

If you want to do so without hitting your head in the process, a good book and the patience to understand it are a good solution, as Hugh suggests.

In the meantime, no problems in taking the approach you prefer. It's your equipment, your music, and your fun. :) But if you ask, people here will give you the route which gives you, overall, the maximum benefit for the minimum cost.
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Re: How do I connect Lexicon M200 to Mixwizard 3?

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:05 pm

It's maybe worth mentioning the the OP is a DJ and is processing .mp3 tracks for his own listening pleasure. He is not recording and/or mixing in the way most of us do. His needs and use case is not that of a conventional studio but more similar to a live DJ in a club. Mike please correct me if I'm wrong anywhere.
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Re: How do I connect Lexicon M200 to Mixwizard 3?

Postby CS70 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:57 pm

Very good point Sam!

If all Mike ever needs is to have the reverbs on the computer outputs, reverb on the outputs it is.
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Re: How do I connect Lexicon M200 to Mixwizard 3?

Postby mikehende » Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:08 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:No one is against it. You should do whatever sounds best, and works best, for you.

All they are saying is that the standard 'professional' approach is to run reverb effects in a send/return configuration using aux sends to route the source(s) to the reverb and extra desk channels to bring back the 'wet' reverb signal(s).

This configuration allows the dry/wet balance to be controlled on faders, and allows multiple sources to share the effects processors in the the most flexible way. (This naturally assumes the reverb unit is set up appropriately to function correctly in this arrangement).

To work this way you also have the option of wiring the effects processor(s) directly between the source and the console. Or, with the right cabling, you could insert the processors into the desk channel's signal path using the console channel inserts. There are minor pros and cons to both techniques.

It would be well worth your while finding and reading a book on basic studio techniques to build an understanding of how consoles work and typical studio configurations since these appear to be new concepts to you.

Ok there you go, finally I have a good explanation of "why" some have told me my preferred connection is wrong! [THANKS Hugh!]. That is what was bugging me, if you tell me something is wrong then at least you should let me know why it's wrong.

Yes Sam, you are correct!

I will still get that book Hugh [thanks] to learn as much as I can about Mixing Boards.

The main differences guys which I had noticed yesterday from using my config was that with the 2 options given to connect the fx to Mixwiz, with my config applying the Pioneer's reverb did not lower the playing audio and also I can hear very distinctly that the fx is more clear.

That is what surprised me trying both Mixwiz configs, I had expected it would have been at least equal to the sound and performance of my config. Little later today Hugh I am going to try going from the Mixwiz's Master Out to the Pioneer's IN then return into the Line IN just to compare, will report back.
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Re: How do I connect Lexicon M200 to Mixwizard 3?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:20 pm

mikehende wrote:...I had expected it would have been at least equal to the sound and performance of my config.

If set up correctly on the console and the reverb unit there should be no difference at all between the send/return console setup and the direct through the box setup. But it would require the reverb to set to output 100% wet only, and the reverb send/return levels to be adjusted appropriately. You will also get different results to moving the fader with the aux send switched to pre or post fade.
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Re: How do I connect Lexicon M200 to Mixwizard 3?

Postby mikehende » Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:35 pm

Could be but myself and my son who works with mixing boards as he does music production had tried everything you have written here and those were the results posted.

My bud who does sound system installation and live setups who is very experienced with Mixing boards is scheduled to be here on Sunday to reset my entire system, I will let him do his thing his way to see if it makes a difference, will report back on that too.
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Re: How do I connect Lexicon M200 to Mixwizard 3?

Postby mikehende » Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:54 pm

Just one final tweak with this guys. I would like to run the Lexicon only on the Horns and not through the mid or Bass. I tried running a cable from the Rane High OUT into the Lexicon into the Left Mono then the L and R OUT into the Amp. No sound to the entire unit.

I then tried running a Y from the High Out on the Rane into the L and R Input on the lexicon, same deal. Why doesn't this work please or how can I get it to work?
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Re: How do I connect Lexicon M200 to Mixwizard 3?

Postby Arpangel » Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:04 pm

mikehende wrote:Just one final tweak with this guys. I would like to run the Lexicon only on the Horns and not through the mid or Bass. I tried running a cable from the Rane High OUT into the Lexicon into the Left Mono then the L and R OUT into the Amp. No sound to the entire unit.

I then tried running a Y from the High Out on the Rane into the L and R Input on the lexicon, same deal. Why doesn't this work please or how can I get it to work?

Just the horns? :think:
What connectors are on the Rane outputs?
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Re: How do I connect Lexicon M200 to Mixwizard 3?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:04 pm

I suspect the problem is just that you have low signal levels running through the Rane, or you have incompatible cables/connectors.

I'm not sure how you're operating your system's overall volume control (I won't hazard a guess as you seem to like unconventional approaches ;) ), but I suspect the output from the Rane is unlikely to be anywhere near full line level and so will not drive the reverb properly or consistently.

A more conventional way of working would be to connect the reverb in a normal send/return configuration on the desk, but roll-off all the mid and bass on the effects return channel(s) so that the reverb contribution only contains frequencies that would be reproduced by the horns.
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Re: How do I connect Lexicon M200 to Mixwizard 3?

Postby mikehende » Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:09 pm

Sorry I had forgotten to include a pic:

https://i.postimg.cc/g0BYbcp5/IMG-2547.jpg

I/4" from the Rane and RCA with 1/4" Mono adapters into the Lexicon.
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Re: How do I connect Lexicon M200 to Mixwizard 3?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:20 pm

The Rane AC23 has unbalanced quarter-inch connectors while the Lexicon has balanced inputs. It should work fine* if you use standard instrument unbalanced TS-TS cables.

Not sure what the Lex output needs to connect to... but again, standard unbalanced instrument TS-TS cables should do it.

* Assuming you're pushing sufficient signal level through the Rane as previous discussed.
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Re: How do I connect Lexicon M200 to Mixwizard 3?

Postby mikehende » Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:47 pm

Yes I am using unbalanced 1/4" adapters.

I am going to try your other suggestion in a little while, seems like a good one, will let you know.
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Re: How do I connect Lexicon M200 to Mixwizard 3?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:43 pm

Adapters can introduce weird non-working problems sometimes. Straight TS-TS cables would be a much more reliable test.
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Re: How do I connect Lexicon M200 to Mixwizard 3?

Postby mikehende » Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:15 pm

Well, as was mentioned I am waiting until every aspect of my system is settled which should be done with my bud on Sunday. So from next week I am going to change every cable one by one to the right and decent quality cables.
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