You are here

No more Focusrite interfaces for me

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Moderator: Moderators

Re: No more Focusrite interfaces for me

Postby blinddrew » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:04 pm

ef37a wrote:
blinddrew wrote:
ef37a wrote:
blinddrew wrote:The thing is Dave, I don't think your 'edge cases' are as rare as you think.
I completely agree that we need to be more responsible in our consumption, and that manufacturers need to be more responsible in finding ways to prolong product life, but our world turns on technology and our demands have changed.
I have a brand new laptop from work, open a PowerPoint, get an excel macro going and start a Teams call and I'm hitting 50% (at least) processor power. This isn't trinkets to look shiny. It's that progress that allows me to not be sitting on a manky old diesel train for an hour and a half every day.
So yes, we need to be more responsible. But no, it's not all driven by chasing shiny toys.
I take your point Drew but for every ten people sitting comfortably at home running Teams there are 100,000 out there working for next to sod all making stuff that nobody really needs.
I still think your numbers are off Dave. We are a service economy supported by China's manufacturing. Huawei has about 200,000 employees, they're not supporting 20 people, they're supporting 200 million.

Sorry Drew, don't really understand that. My meaning is that, rather simplistically, the "Western World" consumes a vastly greater amount of the world's resources compared to the 'undeveloped' world but it is they that are largely suffering the consequences. "We" have to cut down drastically on ALL of our consumption. Meat, frocks, travel both air and surface and the production of 'things we don't really need' At least not as often as we presently do.
LIkewise sorry Dave, I think we're talking slightly at cross purposes here. I recognise that over-consumption is a huge problem, it was the argument you set up about that being driven by a small percentage of people clamouring for new devices of which they'd only use a fraction of the capability. Whilst that might be true of a very small number of top-end devices, the bulk of the manufacturing and consumption is of much more run of the mill devices that get worked hard to improve productivity - which allows us environmentally beneficial stuff like working from home.
That's all.
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 14236
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: No more Focusrite interfaces for me

Postby MOF » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:27 pm

MOF wrote:will have greater momentum now that Biden is President...
Guest wrote:I'm sorry, this does not compute.

Biden has taken the USA back into the Paris climate agreement and launched a massive investment into green technology which should be passed into law given the balance of power https://www.worldoil.com/news/2021/3/31 ... bonization

MOF wrote:...also had the biggest leap in sales of Battery electric vehicles, not a one off blip, electric car sales are increasing now that range anxiety is no longer an issue and there is more choice of models and manufacturers.
Guest wrote:And electric cars do far more damage than good, considering the environmental damage associated with resource extraction far outweighs any reduction in GHG emissions.

I found this article link on the Fully Charged Show website (https://fullycharged.show/episodes/) which contradicts your view, Robert Llewellyn also mentions elsewhere that cobalt, currently the most vilified metal, is used extensively in the oil refining process.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... dApp_Other
Also this shows the complete CO2 comparison between ICE and BEV cars https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mk-LnUYEXuM
Also some cars such as the 2014 onwards Nissan Leaf, I don’t know why it’s not mandatory, can play a part in balancing the grid, so no need to fire up a generator at peak demand.
The car batteries have a second use as home backup before eventually being recycled back to car batteries.

MOF wrote:I remain optimistic that humanity can sort out these problems but not by stopping to take stock.
Guest wrote:Yep 'cause Humanity does a bang up job sorting things out when they refuse to assess a situation and respond with compassion and intelligence. Ride like Dr. Strangelove! yeee haaawwww!!!!

Well Robert’s interview with this climate scientist gave me some cause for optimism https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xon3Xu5JuBU

Also it’s hard to get every nation to agree to change course, you have to lead by example and use the carrot and the stick. There have been some successes: banning commercial whaling, ozone hole and cfc use, nuclear non proliferation treaty etc. Added to that, self awareness of what humanity is doing to the planet and the use of technology and consumer power to address the problems caused by large corporations and governments.
We’re already seeing companies such as BP writing down their oil assets and diversifying into charging networks and alternative energy.
MOF
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1541
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:00 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: No more Focusrite interfaces for me

Postby ef37a » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:42 pm

I am rather sad that so few SOS forum members share my concerns, There seems to be a view that the ever improving performance of digital technology helps in some way to reduce climate change . Yes, more people can work from home but they are a vanishingly small fraction of humanity many of whom HAVE to go to work and in many cases, take their chances with the virus. It is that huge workforce that is doing the damage producing basically toys for the western world. Of course, those people need the work and the money, pitiful though it is in many cases.

I doubt much will really change until mid century when it is predicted that a lot of low lying coastal areas will be flooded, as will large tracts of productive agricultural land. Those people will start to move inland and then all the ***t in hell will break lose.

In case anyone wants to know? I get the bulk of my information from New Scientist and a bit from the BBC.

Dave.
ef37a
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12855
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 12:00 am
Location: northampton uk

Re: No more Focusrite interfaces for me

Postby MOF » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:18 pm

I doubt much will really change until mid century when it is predicted that a lot of low lying coastal areas will be flooded, as will large tracts of productive agricultural land. Those people will start to move inland and then all the ***t in hell will break lose.

We have a window of opportunity to reverse this, check out my post above and particularly at 14’ 35” here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xon3Xu5JuBU where he says the whole world can transition to 100% renewable energy and it makes economic sense too.
Many countries, surprisingly even America, despite Trump’s pro coal and oil agenda, are already making great progress in that transition and electrifying all transport, industrial energy requirements and home heating will complete the move to zero carbon.
MOF
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1541
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:00 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: No more Focusrite interfaces for me

Postby blinddrew » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:11 pm

The only bit I'm disagreeing with Dave, is the idea that they're toys.
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 14236
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: No more Focusrite interfaces for me

Postby manwilde » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:43 pm

I agree with Dave´s point of view, mostly. Very interesting points made by all of you, anyway. It´s a complex subject, but I feel we don´t really need, in most cases, to always have the latest of the latest to get the job properly done, or even to amuse ourselves.

Getting back to sound recording equipment obsolescence, I have one genuine question to you all: why is it so important to have your music computer connected to the internet?. Aside from some software requiring so in order to work, which I avoid completely, surely you don´t need to?. I´m very much on James´line of thinking: you treat your computer as a tool and make it stay always the same. No updates, no nothing. Just what´s needed to do the job.

Very interested in your opinions.
manwilde
Regular
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 3:57 pm

Re: No more Focusrite interfaces for me

Postby CS70 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:06 pm

ef37a wrote:I am rather sad that so few SOS forum members share my concerns

I am not sure they are few. Technology by itself can be a force of good or bad. The same mobile phone which give people a novel way to get into a type of addiction which did not exist before, can in other circumstances allow a life to be saved - for example because you witness a car accident and you can call an ambulance there and then.

One of the senses of my OP is that it is very often a _decision_ to use it one way or another.
Especially when it comes to businesses. Dropping products (causing an unnecessary need to buy new ones) or built-in obsolescence is a business practice that we have come to accept and will not stop until we say - clearly - "enough". In sufficient numbers.

There are legitimate reasons to drop products of course. We don't use any more gas lighting in cities or tubes in televisions or smoke signals to communicate because we've found better way which have superseded these. It's important to keep this distinction, otherwise everything gets mixed up and watered down.

But a case like the Forte (and similar, of course, there's far worse offenders) is not good exactly from that point of view.
User avatar
CS70
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7745
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Oslo, Norway
Silver Spoon - Check out our latest video and the FB page

Re: No more Focusrite interfaces for me

Postby CS70 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:16 pm

manwilde wrote:why is it so important to have your music computer connected to the internet?

Mostly efficiency: PACE and the need of being online to keep effects activated, getting bugfixes and improvements for your DAW and other musical software are pressing concerns. Otherwise it's usually a matter of available space and budget.

But mostly efficiency and competitiveness. For example, for production, it has become extremely commonplace to exchange files, and taking hard disks on airplanes worked circa 1992, not nowadays. Remote tuition is hardly possible without an internet connection.

In general, the expectations of what is possible and how fast it is possible do not depend on the individual, but on the practices in the society at large. So while older, slower ways of doing things can always been chosen, they are usually not justifiable the moment there's other people involved.

Beyond that, as said: space and budget.
User avatar
CS70
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7745
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Oslo, Norway
Silver Spoon - Check out our latest video and the FB page

Re: No more Focusrite interfaces for me

Postby Humble Bee » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:23 pm

But CS to be honest, you can most probably get good use out of your Forte for another decade or two as long as you have a computer with the appropriate OS version running an appropriate driver. You don’t have to run it on your new M1 you know. An old Windows machine will do fine as you know. Or just write your own driver if it’s such an uncomplicated task. ;)

And giving a good company like Focusrite such a hard time here on the forums is just too easy. They have made some great stuff in their past and continue to do so. There are certainly worse offenders in the industry. A few of them have even dared to go bust... :D
User avatar
Humble Bee
Regular
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:00 am
Location: Sweden

Re: No more Focusrite interfaces for me

Postby CS70 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:36 pm

Humble Bee wrote:But CS to be honest, you can most probably get good use out of your Forte for another decade or two as long as you have a computer with the appropriate OS version running an appropriate driver. You don’t have to run it on your new M1 you know. An old Windows machine will do fine as you know. Or just write your own driver if it’s such an uncomplicated task. ;)

Well, nah - not really - it started to have glitches and I had to drop it. Currently I'm using a UR28M in the same task for my own little work, and generally recommending RME for consultancy work.

For the rest, the irony is quite misplaced :-D First of all, I bought it - and it would be odd to have to make your own padding when you buy a sofa, even if you happen to be knowledgeable of upholstery.

Second - unlike Focusrite, I do not have the documentation from the chipset manufacturer.
That is what makes it difficult.

And giving a good company like Focusrite such a hard time here on the forums is just too easy. They have made some great stuff in their past and continue to do so. There are certainly worse offenders in the industry. A few of them have even dared to go bust... :D

Not sure what your point is. "Too easy" in which sense? I try to be as clear and concrete in my argument as I can.

As I already wrote, I am totally uninterested in fandom (in this situation.. when Italy's playing, it's a different matter :D)

Heck, I like Focusrite. Going bust is the results of too many bad decisions and one of the reason of my OP is to point out one..
User avatar
CS70
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7745
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Oslo, Norway
Silver Spoon - Check out our latest video and the FB page

Re: No more Focusrite interfaces for me

Postby Humble Bee » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:47 pm

Oh well ok I’m sorry if I totally misunderstood you CS. :thumbup:
User avatar
Humble Bee
Regular
Posts: 359
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:00 am
Location: Sweden

Re: No more Focusrite interfaces for me

Postby Guest » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:37 pm

Eddy Deegan wrote:
Guest wrote:
MOF wrote: will have greater momentum now that Biden is President...

I'm sorry, this does not compute. Biden ...

Please keep specific politics out of this. If you really feel the need to discuss them, do so in the Musician's Lounge; the Recording: Gear & Techniques forum is not the place to do it. Thank you.

Not to be overly prickly but I would encourage you to please enforce your policies evenly. It creates an appearance of bias to allow one perspective to voice without censure and then reprimand content that challenges that perspective.

Recognizing your prerogative as platform owner to act as you will, I will take what I need from the otherwise excellent content and refrain from further participation. Good day.
Guest

Re: No more Focusrite interfaces for me

Postby Eddy Deegan » Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:46 pm

The guidance was for all concerned and not aimed at any particular individual. Nor is it the first time that requests to keep party-political discussions out of the public facing forums have been made.

We do not actively suppress (non-illegal/abusive) opinions here, nor have we ever done. A quick review of some topics in the Musicians Lounge should illustrate that clearly. That said, the appropriate place to discuss partisan politics is the Lounge.

Within this thread, the subject of politics as a general subject was raised and there are no issues with that. However when it comes to posts along the lines of 'Bilbo Baggins sucks and is a fool' that crossed a line that if left unchecked would lead to all sorts of random diversions and lead nowhere that anyone would find useful.

There is no bias on the part of the moderation team here, merely a request to keep certain subject matters in certain places. The Lounge is provided for such things.
User avatar
Eddy Deegan
Moderator
Posts: 5788
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:00 am
Location: Brighton & Hove, UK
Some of my works | The SOS Forum Album projects
 

Re: No more Focusrite interfaces for me

Postby Tomás Mulcahy » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:02 am

Rockrooms wrote:...I think suggesting that any company, Focusrite included, doesn't take careful consideration of the impact of stopping support is a bit on the harsh side, but understand and respect your decision not to chose any more products because of support ending.

I wish the outcome were different and I can't offer any remediation, only that I know the decision wouldn't have been taken lightly.

Joe
Agreed, and thank you for the insightful post. My personal experience of Focusrite/ Novation has been very positive for many years, support over and above what is required, including the KSR, 16 years old at the time! And recently with a 2014 Scarlett Interface. It's a company that has genuine motivations.
User avatar
Tomás Mulcahy
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1980
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Cork, Ireland.

Re: No more Focusrite interfaces for me

Postby uselessoldman » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:13 am

I take a couple of days off visiting the girlfriend and it takes almost as long to catch up.

Going back and getting back on topic. My position and argument is why stop supporting anything that is currently still working. I specifically was interested in what Rockrooms had to say since I own the Liquid 56 a Focusrite product that they discontinued making and supporting that is still working fine with the current version of Windows.

It is wrong and bad in my books to blame Microsoft or Windows 10. Yes they have made some silly mistakes with updates and screwed users over for a few days, but those faults were quickly sorted. The whole ethos of Windows 10 is consistency and continuity what worked yesterday should work today and continue working in the future.

Maybe its just me, but I have never had any driver or any app that has told me I am running the wrong version of Windows 10. Yes some might need a certain old library here and there but that is to be expected. So in my eyes for them to discontinue support is purely for financial reasons, make users upgrade to something the do not need, scare them into the belief they need something, cos I bet my Liquid will still be going strong in 5 yrs unless its actually blows up irrelevant of support or not.

As for Windows 10 updates. Yes Windows updates can screw up, done it to me in the past. Rebuilding a computer is never fun, especially when you have a million and one apps installed vsts etc but even with Windows 10 I would recommend users do a full new install every so often. Microsoft have stated clearly when its recommended. I would guess since Windows 10 came out, I have rebuilt my computers about 5 times each usually around November after the Oct major update issue (just over once a year)

I run HP Z600s they use Xeons and run WIndows 10 without any issue, only upgrades I have done is add SATA3 cards and installed HD graphics cards GTX 970s, they give me 4k !! I use one as a test bed for testing music apps, they both have 64Gb Ram installed with a couple of Xeons, still gives my HD8350 a good run for its money. The other has Microsoft System Centre running, but to be honest I probably last switched it on about 2 yrs ago. Nothing wrong with using 10 yr old computers and gear, so long as its currently compatible.
uselessoldman
Regular
Posts: 158
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 7:39 pm

PreviousNext