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Good small monitor controller.

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Re: Good small monitor controller.

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:39 pm

Both BK's were mentioned early in the thread with the discussion moving towards passive controllers later.

WRT my possible DIY job*, I'm trying to get a schematic drawn out and was wondering what app you used to draw your diagram? All the ones I can find for Mac seem to either be general drawing apps or for PCB design (or hugely expensive and/or complicated).

* Costed out at around £65 but if I can make it work I have some DT4P toggles switches, a large knob and a bucketload of XLR and phono sockets so just need a box, stepped attenuator and a bag of suitable resistors which ebay will provide for the princely sum of £36.56. That said a Big Knob passive would pretty much get the job done for £65 and save me the hassle :blush:
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Re: Good small monitor controller.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:18 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:...was wondering what app you used to draw your diagram?

Coreldraw. Straightforward vector drawing program.

That said a Big Knob passive would pretty much get the job done for £65 and save me the hassle :blush:

So often the case! Unless you want something particularly unusual a commercial product will often work out less expensive than a custom DIY job.
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Re: Good small monitor controller.

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:39 pm

Still pondering, the features on the BKP are almost spot on :-

Stereo balanced input - (X32 control room outputs)
Stereo unbalanced input - (Logitech BT receiver)

Stereo balanced output - (Quad 522/Kef 104bAs)
Mono balanced output - (Avantone Mixcube)

Volume control
Input switching
Output switching
Mute

BKP features not required on custom box :-

Mono (output 2 is mono)
Dim
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Re: Good small monitor controller.

Postby blinddrew » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:32 pm

You could see how much John at Orchid would charge you?
Takes the fun out of it of course...
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Re: Good small monitor controller.

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:54 pm

True, and at least I'd be sure he'd design it properly... But the fun aspect would definitely be a loss...
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Re: Good small monitor controller.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:56 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:Still pondering, the features on the BKP are almost spot on :-

Stereo balanced input - (X32 control room outputs)
Stereo unbalanced input - (Logitech BT receiver)

The details aren't entirely clear from the manual, and the block diagram indulges in a fair bit of 'artistic licence', but it appears that the BKP is actually unbalanced throughout. It appears to ignore the cold leg of the inputs completely, and the outputs appear to adopt an impedance-balanced approach, although its hard to see how that would work reliably given the inherently variable source impedance of the volume control.

That's not to say that being unbalanced won't work -- it obviously will and does -- but it could lead to oddities...

BKP features not required on custom box :-
Dim

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Dim function. When using a conventional pot (rather than a stepped attenuator), channel tracking is inherently poor at low listening levels. Using a Dim switch extends the useful working range of the control downwards by 20dB which is very useful for late night working, checking mixes at low level, and for answering the phone or having a conversation without having to tweak the volume knob.
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Re: Good small monitor controller.

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:12 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Dim function. When using a conventional pot (rather than a stepped attenuator), channel tracking is inherently poor at low listening levels. Using a Dim switch extends the useful working range of the control downwards by 20dB which is very useful for late night working, checking mixes at low level, and for answering the phone or having a conversation without having to tweak the volume knob.

Dim is, I believe, easy enough to implement so I will draw it in the schematic even if I don't build it into the first version.
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Re: Good small monitor controller.

Postby Arpangel » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:34 am

Review, Pilot now set-up, it’s completely transparent, it works, review over.
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Re: Good small monitor controller.

Postby ef37a » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:50 am

Sam, the BKP is indeed flawed, the input resistance of the ring input is low at 1k and can therefore cause distortion with some sources. As you say, the output is not even close to balanced but AFAICT there is a 'cold' signal.

Other than those flaws, the box works very well and if it seems to satisfy your requirements I would suggest you get one and simple make NE5532 buffers for the inputs and a pair of symmetrical outputs ? The LM4562 will be even better, lower noise and greater drive capability though I doubt you would hear any difference.

Lot less trouble than a 'New Wheel'?

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Re: Good small monitor controller.

Postby blinddrew » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:30 am

Arpangel wrote:Review, Pilot now set-up, it’s completely transparent, it works, review over.
:thumbup:
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Re: Good small monitor controller.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:24 pm

Arpangel wrote:Review, Pilot now set-up, it’s completely transparent, it works, review over.

Think of how many ads we could get in the mag if all my reviews were that short... :bouncy: :think:
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Re: Good small monitor controller.

Postby Arpangel » Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:43 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Arpangel wrote:Review, Pilot now set-up, it’s completely transparent, it works, review over.

Think of how many ads we could get in the mag if all my reviews were that short... :bouncy: :think:

I’m always here Hugh, I'm looking forward to doing a one line review of the Behringer/Neve 8068 reissue.

:thumbup: :D
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Re: Good small monitor controller.

Postby ef37a » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:09 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Arpangel wrote:Review, Pilot now set-up, it’s completely transparent, it works, review over.

Think of how many ads we could get in the mag if all my reviews were that short... :bouncy: :think:

NO!!!! Many are too short as it is. I cannot think of it now but there was a review of something quite high end and complex last year that was dismissed in less than a page.

Might I have the temerity to suggest "quantity" often triumphs over "quality"? Or, if not "quality" certainly 'depth'? And, compared to many 'skinnies' I buy occasionally, SOS magazine is STUPIDLY cheap! Another quid is surely justified especially if it means reviewers can take just a bit more 'time'?

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Re: Good small monitor controller.

Postby Arpangel » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:26 am

ef37a wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Arpangel wrote:Review, Pilot now set-up, it’s completely transparent, it works, review over.

Think of how many ads we could get in the mag if all my reviews were that short... :bouncy: :think:

NO!!!! Many are too short as it is. I cannot think of it now but there was a review of something quite high end and complex last year that was dismissed in less than a page.

Might I have the temerity to suggest "quantity" often triumphs over "quality"? Or, if not "quality" certainly 'depth'? And, compared to many 'skinnies' I buy occasionally, SOS magazine is STUPIDLY cheap! Another quid is surely justified especially if it means reviewers can take just a bit more 'time'?

Dave.

Sometimes there’s not a lot you can say, beyond it meeting certain personal requirements, and it sounding sort of "OK" and most gear these days "is" sort of OK there aren’t any real turds, do you remember those "stereo" radios in the 70’ that were just one speaker with two cardboard tubes going to a couple of fake grills? we need more stuff like that to liven things up!

:D
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Re: Good small monitor controller.

Postby blinddrew » Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:29 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Arpangel wrote:Review, Pilot now set-up, it’s completely transparent, it works, review over.

Think of how many ads we could get in the mag if all my reviews were that short... :bouncy: :think:
Surely Sam would just send you more stuff to review? ;)
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