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Microtonal MIDI

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Re: Microtonal MIDI

Postby Elephone » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:13 pm

When you say Kontakt, do you mean Kontakt 3 specifically? I can't see the same tuning functions in Kontakt 2.

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Re: Microtonal MIDI

Postby Elephone » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:13 pm

When you say Kontakt, do you mean Kontakt 3 specifically? I can't see the same tuning functions in Kontakt 2.

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Re: Microtonal MIDI

Postby Johnny Stecchino » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:43 pm

Reiknir wrote:
Crumar Digital Products definetly (have used them) think some of the analogue or hybrids as well, an Elka/Orla synth I had a long time ago, some of them may have been shipped with alternative tunings for specific markets only. And Roland products designed and made in Italy are Italian ?

Unfortunately Curmar doesn't exist anymore and Elka don't make synths anymore, and what you wrote about specific markets is very possible, I didn't think about it...
I found GEM (General Music), though fall to bankrupt few months ago and as far as my knowledge gets - close their fabric in Italy, still sell their products which some are OR keyboards and I didn't know that! http://www.generalmusic.com/prodotti.asp?cod=995212&lingua=ita&frame=ca

you can hear here probably the best samples: http://www.maqam.com/gem-keyboards-genesys.html


In the moment then we left with Roland (which is definitely not an Italian company) but if the synths designed and made in Italy they are Italian - yeah!
I just never saw any Made in Italy Roland but that doesn't mean they do not exist ;) btw - are we sure though the OR models are made by Roland Italy? :headbang:

Reiknir wrote:
And the Roland EXR40 OR supports alternative tunings, go into the function menu, choose KB Scale mode, there is a little explanation in page 43 of the manual. Almost all home keyboards do this these days since some classical vocal work requires Baroque and Pythagorean scales.

Thanks for that, I just checked the manual, I didn't know you can change the cents I thought it was a fixed tuning. I'll tell it to my friend who own the keyboard (unfortunately it's not mine I just used it in the past).
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Re: Microtonal MIDI

Postby Bel2b » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:22 pm

Hi Guy

In the same way I have a little question :

I'm using a korg Triton Le keyboard , i have tryed to change scaling via sysex message , the only way i found it's to send a global data dump from my computer (using midiox) to the keyboard .

But i'm facing a problem when i send the sysex message; the keyboard save the global setting and result of no sound/no control while saving (about 1 sec ).
i don't know if the sysex message i sended contain some errors or isn't the appropriate one .

sysex message contain a value"-52" in the E key of the userscale 00
"F0 42 30 63 51 00 00 00 00 03 02 1C 00 00 20 00 00 00 00 00 4C 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 07 20 37
0F 30 26 1E 60 00 58 31 0F 0C 58 60 00 53 5A 02 1D 00 72 5E 00 78 46 10 3B 60 00 00 00 60 44 00
5C 73 31 08 55 4C 10 0A 00 00 00 3F 00 17 04 00 00 39 00 03 00 00 10 00 00 00 04 48 0A 00 04 00
00 44 00 38 00 0F 01 48 58 19 00 05 00 00 01 4C 0E 00 17 00 00 0B 63 3C 7B 00 0B 10 62 76 60 14
00 00 14 00 3F 73 20 31 08 55 00 00 4C 00 28 00 00 10 4C 00 70 0A 08 00 00 00 3F 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 00 00 00 00 00 3F 00 21 63 00 00 05 00 55 13 20 14
0F 00 26 00 3F 0A 00 31 1A 55 0A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 20 00 00 00 00 00 1D 0A 08 00
00 00 3F 00 00 00 08 00 00 00 3F 00 00 00 02 00 3F 00 00 00 00 00 02 00 1D 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 4B 00 65
79 62 6F 61 72 64 00 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 00 20 4F 72 67 61 6E 20 00 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 00 20
20 20 42 65 6C 6C 00 2F 4D 61 6C 6C 65 74 00 20 20 20 20 20 53 74 00 72 69 6E 67 73 20 20 00 20
20 20 20 20 20 20 00 56 6F 63 61 6C 2F 41 00 69 72 79 20 20 20 20 00 20 20 42 72 61 73 73 00 20
20 20 20 20 20 20 00 20 20 20 20 57 6F 6F 00 64 77 69 6E 64 2F 52 00 65 65 64 20 20 20 47 00 75
69 74 61 72 2F 50 00 6C 75 63 6B 65 64 20 00 20 42 61 73 73 20 20 00 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 00 20
20 20 53 6C 6F 77 00 53 79 6E 74 68 20 20 00 20 20 20 20 20 46 61 00 73 74 53 79 6E 74 68 00 20
20 20 20 20 20 20 00 4C 65 61 64 53 79 6E 00 74 68 20 20 20 20 20 00 20 20 4D 6F 74 69 6F 00 6E
53 79 6E 74 68 20 00 20 20 20 20 53 45 20 00 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 00 20 20 20 20 20 20 48 00 69
74 2F 41 72 70 67 00 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 00 20 44 72 75 6D 73 20 00 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 00 20
20 20 4B 65 79 62 00 6F 61 72 64 20 20 20 00 20 20 20 20 20 4F 72 00 67 61 6E 20 20 20 20 00 20
20 20 20 20 20 20 00 42 65 6C 6C 2F 4D 61 00 6C 6C 65 74 2F 50 65 00 72 63 53 74 72 69 6E 00 67
73 20 20 20 20 20 00 20 20 20 20 42 72 61 00 73 73 52 65 65 64 20 00 20 20 20 20 20 20 4F 00 72
63 68 65 73 74 72 00 61 6C 20 20 20 20 20 00 20 57 6F 72 6C 64 20 00 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 00 20
20 20 47 75 69 74 00 61 72 2F 50 6C 75 63 00 6B 65 64 20 20 50 61 00 64 73 20 20 20 20 20 00 20
20 20 20 20 20 20 00 4D 6F 74 69 6F 6E 20 00 53 79 6E 74 68 20 20 00 20 20 53 79 6E 74 68 00 20
20 20 20 20 20 20 00 20 20 20 20 4C 65 61 00 64 53 70 6C 69 74 73 00 20 20 20 20 20 20 42 00 61
73 73 53 70 6C 69 00 74 73 20 20 20 20 20 00 20 43 6F 6D 70 6C 65 00 78 20 26 20 53 45 20 00 20
20 20 55 73 65 72 00 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 00 20 20 20 20 20 44 73 00 2F 48 69 74 73 20 20 00 20
20 20 20 20 20 20 00 7F 00 00 00 0C 7F 7F 00 00 00 0C F7"

please can you help me
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Re: Microtonal MIDI

Postby Bob Moose » Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:00 pm

Hello,

I have programmed a sampler in Max (Cycling'74) that allows to use any tuning scale. Basically, it uses a mapping curve (say a bijective function), in which you have the MIDI note numbers on the X axis and the tuning values on the Y axis. These tuning values have a very high resolution, probably something like 32 or 64 bit float numbers. This curve can be manually edited, but I also included a scale generator that can generate many different scales, for example there is an "equally-tempered" mode in which you can divide the octaves in any number of steps that are equally spaced. If you use 12 steps, you get the usual western tempered scale, but you can also use 5 or 7 steps like they often do in Africa or Asia, or even a float number.
When playing on a keyboard (or something equivalent), the incoming MIDI note numbers are replaced by the tuning values given by the tuning curve inside the sampler (the playback rate is not a 7 bit number but a 32 or 64 bit float number).
Also, as a keyboard player I found it quite impractical to play with a 5-division scale on a regular keyboard. The only solution I found was to allow using only the black keys (that are arranged in 2+3 groups), only the white keys (grouped in 7) or both.

I first thought it would be possible to insert this tuning mapping system between a MIDI keyboard and a software or hardware instrument, unfortunately only analogue synths (and perhaps a few very special digital devices) have high resolution control inputs. Which is why I ended programming a complete sampler, actually with lots of other special functions.

But I'm pretty sure Kontakt can do all this now, except maybe the white-only or black-only keyboard arrangements... Since Roland released their "Eastern" keybaords, most other manufacturers have included alternative tuning scales. Even my Yamaha P-250 stage piano has about 12 different scales (only Western unfortunately...).

Best regards,
-j
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Re: Microtonal MIDI

Postby ezza » Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:37 am

Replying to the original post at the top. You can do this in ACE - a soft synth from U-He. ACE Synth

There is a mapping window that can be used to offset the pitch of each note to any value you want. It can be done in one octave and applied accross the whole keyboard or you can do every note individually.

/e
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