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Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

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Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby deadman » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:59 pm

Hi all, i'm at a decision making point and need some informed opinion. I am currently running Logic, while it is great at most things, it WILL NOT work as i want it to in terms of midi programming, so i must change, i have to, there are many different DAW's out there which DO suit me, but Pro Tools 8 LE has been at the back of my mind for a while, i actually like the idea of dedicated hardware for software, doesn't harm Apple : ) however, i have not used it much and cannot comment on the quality, So, the question is, is there anyone out there that has used the 003 systems and RME or Apogee based systems that could tell me if the Digidesign stuff (converters/preamps etc) are up there with the same quailty as those others? Thanks in advance for any help... :)
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby Jonnypopisical » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:10 pm

Hi - If Logic does not do MIDI as you need then I can't see Pro tools doing it either as protools has the least advanced MIDI spec of any of all the DAWs?!! :headbang:
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby . . . Delete This User . . . » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:28 pm

ditto really.... AFAIK There's nothing you can do in any other DAW for midi that you cannot do in logic... indeed, there's stuff you can do in logic that you cannot do in any other DAW>...


so please explain what you mean... maybe a way to do it can be pointed out to you....

protools Midi is positively prehistorically clunky by comparison
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby The Elf » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:48 pm

Ditto the comments of the guys above.

But as to hardware - I wouldn't swap the mic pre's in my RME Fireface for the ones in my MBox 2. The RME is livelier and more crisp.
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby vinyl_junkie » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:51 pm

I have to ask what do you want Logic to do in regards to MIDI?
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby deadman » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:42 pm

I'm not on here for a natter, i do not want to go into why, even the logic pro help forum were no help, because, TRUST ME! Logic has an insurmountable midi input issue with which i cannot work! End of story. This was not my question, i wish i hadn't mentioned it, just want to know, FROM PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY KNOW! If there is a major quality difference betweem the likes of Apogee/RME converters and pre's, vs the Digi 003 series. Thankyou...
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby Zukan » Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:55 pm

If your question is only about converters then the DAW choice will have no effect unless you need to use proprietary software like PT that requires generic (M-Audio,Digidesign) hardware to run it on.

Additionally, your list only contains makes and not models for the converters. BUT, if I had to stick my neck out then the only comment I would make is that the 003 features at the bottom of the list assuming you are going for like for like in terms of feature sets.
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby The Fold Studios » Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:10 pm

I'd say that the 003 converters would stuggle to compete with anything RME or Apogee have to offer. To some extent it's a subjective thing, but there are certain aspects which you can look at objectively... I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure, for example, that any apogee converter would have significantly greater dynamic range, lower total harmonic distortion and noise, a more stable clock with lower jitter etc.

From a subjective viewpoint, I don't much like the preamps in the 003, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to them running through the wooly converters that follow them.
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby The Elf » Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:22 pm

Is this the time to mention PT LE's lack of Automatic Delay Compensation.

Makes it a dead duck for me. :frown:
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby deadman » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:11 pm

Zukan wrote:If your question is only about converters then the DAW choice will have no effect unless you need to use proprietary software like PT that requires generic (M-Audio,Digidesign) hardware to run it on.

No! Really? i didn't realise!!!! sorry for the sarcasm, actually i'm not, i think it's obvious from my post, that is WHY i am asking about the 003!!


may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure, for example, that any apogee converter would have significantly greater dynamic range, lower total harmonic distortion and noise, a more stable clock with lower jitter etc.

How sure? Enough for me to blow £1500 on? This is getting me nowhere...
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby vinyl_junkie » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:44 pm

I don't know but i'd have a look in seeing about that sand in your vagina as it seems to be iritating you.
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby The Fold Studios » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:50 pm

deadman wrote:
The Fold Studios wrote: I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure, for example, that any apogee converter would have significantly greater dynamic range, lower total harmonic distortion and noise, a more stable clock with lower jitter etc.


How sure? Enough for me to blow £1500 on? This is getting me nowhere...


Easy Tiger. The kind of specs I was talking about shouldn't be too hard to find on the internet. I'm not saying you should just splash out your cash on whatever has the best specs, but that's what's quantifiable, everything else is opinion and you may have to form your own by testing out the gear you mentioned. I did give you my opinion about the 003 pres but like I said, I've only heard the 003 pres through the 003 converters and I've only heard RME fireface pres through their internal converters. If you were thinking about, for example and apogee ad16, you would probably be looking at stand alone preamps infront of it, and that opens up a whole new can of worms. I think everyone on here is doing there best to be helpful.
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby Persuazion » Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:56 pm

I personally wouldn't encourage the guy. He's clearly got issues. For someone so cocksure it's surprising he doesn't know the answer already.
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby The Elf » Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:04 pm

Agreed. His response to Zukan has lost any help he's getting from me.

Getting angry and sarcastic is not the way to ask for help. :frown:
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby JamesSimpson » Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:26 pm

Don't get upset on the internet, go to a shop that has both, take some headphones, reference material, listen to both converters. Decide which you prefer, buy that one.

Either one can be used to make great records.

DAW workflow and compatability with projects would be my primary choice, that being said, I'd prefer apogee converters over stock digi ones anyday.
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby Grantsos » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:43 pm

deadman wrote:TRUST ME! Logic has an insurmountable midi input issue with which i cannot work! End of story.

I'm just dying to know what that issue is, for some reason...?

I would choose Apogee too, but you need to audition and A/B the systems yourself.
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby Andy McBain » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:00 pm

Grantsos wrote:
deadman wrote:TRUST ME! Logic has an insurmountable midi input issue with which i cannot work! End of story.

I'm just dying to know what that issue is, for some reason...?

+1
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby deadman » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:14 am

Ok i'm sorry i got narky, really, i've just really had it with people that reply to a question with a completely irrelevant answer, i wanted to know what differences between the hardware were, simply in terms of sound quality, i've done my research and know the feature sets etc... i had the same thing when trying to solve the Logic issue i was having time and time again, rather than answer the question, i'd get "why would you want to do that anyway?" THAT'S ANNOYING!!! Sorry but i see it no better than spamming or thread hijacking. If you really must know, the problem i have with logic is with midi programming, i feel i have tried to explain this a thousand times, i write drum tracks using Superior 2, the drum software is irrelevant but hey, i have used drum machines for nigh on 20 years, and for the last 14 of those, MPC's, now, i want to write my drum tracks in the same way as i've always done, in real time, looping small sections, or patterns, i will for instance, loop two bars, tap out a groove, and while still running, maybe hit a pad again in the same spot to adjust the velocity, to get the feel right, on every drum machine, and every DAW i've used, this will replace the old note with the new one, this doesn't happen in Logic, it will either make a new take, or stack it up over the old one, so you lose the whole lot or end up with two simultaneous phasing hits, how am i supposed to get the feel like that?!?! There is NOTHING you can do to change it, i have been moaning to them about it since Logic 8 came out, and through all the updates AND now Logic 9, still the same ridiculous problem. You cannot program without stopping, deleting duplicate notes or adjusting velocities manually, all of which means reverting to the mouse, and most of all stopping!!! That really sucks and is mind bogglingly frustrating! I'm done with logic, as much as love it for everything else. I want to get rid of my MPC, they are great to but not without they're own weird issues like going out of time in song mode... Don't EVEN get me started on that! :) i want to be able to do EVERYTHING in one place, people have suggested i buy a drum machine plug-in, to use in Logic, but why the hell should i? I bought Logic, it has a sequencer, it just happens to suck donkey balls when it comes to drum programming!!!!
So, i want to shove there software right up their arse and start afresh with something that will work for me, Ableton i know works the way i want without having to set it up or do anything, it just works exactly as you would expect of a sequencer, but i don't like the layout so am looking at alternatives, Pro Tools always gets a good word or two but there are like no actual in depth reviews that i can find that give me the info i need, i really would buy it on the word of a trusted review, but couldn't find one so i came here...
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby JamesSimpson » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:26 am

I don't think Pro Tools will do this either, although it's quite difficult to understand your problem. You need to set your sequencer to delete previous midi notes i suppose, problem with this is that you will delete everything else that you don't play in.
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby deadman » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:30 am

Exactly :frown: If your drum machine did that, how long before you catapulted it into orbit?
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