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Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby deadman » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:49 am

Now, back to my question??? :)
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby JamesSimpson » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:21 am

Buy a drum machine as neither logic nor pro tools will help you,
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby markvr4 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:36 am

deadman wrote:Now, back to my question??? :)

I don't have any experience with the 003 so I can't help in that regard, but I recently did extensive audio interface comparison shopping myself, and I went with the Apogee Ensemble. After using it for the past month, my opinion is that the sound lives up to every bit of it's specs. But like others already mentioned, if you don't trust the specs, your only other option is to listen to the different models yourself. What good does the completely subjective opinion of strangers do you? We all have unique levels of high frequency hearing loss so they will sound a little different to all of us!

On a side note, I also switched to Logic 9 at the same time as purchasing the Ensemble. Prior to that I had used Ableton Live Suite for a few years. My opinion is that Ableton has the best user interface of any sequencer in terms of ease of use and workflow. However, Logic's synths, instruments, and plugins sound much better than Ableton's, and the differences in the user interface and workflow in Logic are not that big of a deal to me.

However, given what you are trying to accomplish with looping, I would guess that if you can't do it the way you want in Ableton, you probably won't be able to it in any sequencer without using some kind of plugin. Midi definitely has some weaknesses--but that's what we've got to work with for now. You probably will have to use something created specifically for groove creation to get the behavior you want.

Depending on how important this is to you and how much work you are willing to put into it, the new Max for (Ableton) Live looks like it can do some pretty powerful things as far as instrument and effect programming. It's sort of a drag-n-drop musical programming environment. But it isn't included with the Live Suite and it's pretty expensive for an add-on unless you are into some serious sound design or custom effects.

Good luck with your quest!
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby Urthlupe » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:18 am

Hi Deadman

I run Logic, Cubase and PTLE on a MacPro.

I have a Digidesign 003R and the Apogee Rosetta 800/Symphony system, I also at one time ran the Apogee Ensemble and have owned an Mbox 2 Pro.

If your question is simply about AD/DA and preamp quality between these units then I'd say it has already been said. The quality of AD/DA conversion is to my ears much better on the Apogee (unsurprisingly) run a close second by the RME interfaces I have used. The Digidesign converters live pretty much in the mid range quality-wise for me.

In terms of preamps - my ears would put RME first above the Ensemble which felt pretty similar in this respect to the 003R.

To me RME also deserve a special mention in terms of build quality - although the Rosetta's are a different animal, I found the build quality of the Ensemble disappointing.

Have you considered clocking the 003R from an external source (say, a higher quality interface) and then connecting an RME or Apogee via ADAT? Limitation is that SMUX is not available on the 003R therefore you are limited to 48kHz or below in terms of sample frequency. Apogee for instance provide instructions as to how to do this on their site.

Incidentally - I understand your frustration.

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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby deadman » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:58 am

markvr4 wrote:

However, given what you are trying to accomplish with looping, I would guess that if you can't do it the way you want in Ableton, you probably won't be able to it in any sequencer without using some kind of plugin.

Yet another person who can't or wont read!


Urthlupe wrote:Hi Deadman

I run Logic, Cubase and PTLE on a MacPro.

I have a Digidesign 003R and the Apogee Rosetta 800/Symphony system, I also at one time ran the Apogee Ensemble and have owned an Mbox 2 Pro.

If your question is simply about AD/DA and preamp quality between these units then I'd say it has already been said. The quality of AD/DA conversion is to my ears much better on the Apogee (unsurprisingly) run a close second by the RME interfaces I have used. The Digidesign converters live pretty much in the mid range quality-wise for me.

In terms of preamps - my ears would put RME first above the Ensemble which felt pretty similar in this respect to the 003R.

To me RME also deserve a special mention in terms of build quality - although the Rosetta's are a different animal, I found the build quality of the Ensemble disappointing.

Have you considered clocking the 003R from an external source (say, a higher quality interface) and then connecting an RME or Apogee via ADAT? Limitation is that SMUX is not available on the 003R therefore you are limited to 48kHz or below in terms of sample frequency. Apogee for instance provide instructions as to how to do this on their site.

Incidentally - I understand your frustration.

Loopy

And FINALLY someone who can :) Thankyou..

I will keep trying with Ableton, but have yet to try Digital Performer which definately looks nicer, but looks aren't everything, so the missus says :) As for the hardware, think i'm starting to get the picture, but surely the 003 can't be any worse than the semi-permanantly loaned MOTU 828 mk2 i'm currently using?
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby johnny h » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:32 am

deadman wrote:
markvr4 wrote:

However, given what you are trying to accomplish with looping, I would guess that if you can't do it the way you want in Ableton, you probably won't be able to it in any sequencer without using some kind of plugin.

Yet another person who can't or wont read!
:boring:
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby The Fold Studios » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:27 am

Yet another person who can't or wont read!


Yet another ungracious comment from someone whom everyone is trying to help. You seem to have been friendly to Urthlupe simpley because he said he understands your frustration. If you bothered to read the first paragraph of Markvr4's comment you'll notice it was a direct answer to your question. Just because he happened to elaborate by giving you some informaiton he felt may have helped you, you react by burning out this rather short fuse of yours. perhaps you've had a few too many late nights on logic recently.

I don't know why I'm even bothering to reply really. Johnny h is on the money. I just find lack of respect such an odious characteristic. :madas:
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby The Elf » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:12 pm

+1

A forum is a place for discussion. It is not anyone’s ‘service-level-guaranteed’ personal help line. Ask for help, but don’t *demand* it.

A forum is not a place to demand personalised, targeted answers to your specific problem. Ask, by all means, but be gracious. People are giving their time, knowledge and skills for free. Accept that respondents might not always give you the answer you want to hear. Some will misunderstand – provide guidance. Some will suggest alternatives – be considerate of such suggestions. Others will simply take the chance to answer (or ask) a different question – be accepting.

If the answers here aren’t to your liking, then go elsewhere. I think you’ll find some of those other places far less forgiving.

I suggest a couple of apologies are in order, then maybe you’ll get more advice, If not, then I, for one, hope that everyone considers this thread dead.
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby deadman » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:31 pm

I asked a simple question and got bollox replies, the Ableton quote was the OPPOSITE of what i said which proved he didn't even read it, so WHY POST!!!!???? i agreed with the other guy and thanked him because HE'S IS THE ONLY PERSON WHO HAS REPLIED WITH THE EXPERIENCED OPINION I ASKED FOR!!! the ONLY one! out of all the posts, it's YOUR unhelpful timewasting crap that has ruined this thread, it was not me, get a life and stop replying to peoples questions when you have NO ANSWERS for them!! loser!
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby Tomás Mulcahy » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:35 pm

What fun. A troll.
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby deadman » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:36 pm

The Elf wrote:+1

A forum is a place for discussion. It is not anyone’s ‘service-level-guaranteed’ personal help line. Ask for help, but don’t *demand* it.

A forum is not a place to demand personalised, targeted answers to your specific problem. Ask, by all means, but be gracious. People are giving their time, knowledge and skills for free. Accept that respondents might not always give you the answer you want to hear. Some will misunderstand – provide guidance. Some will suggest alternatives – be considerate of such suggestions. Others will simply take the chance to answer (or ask) a different question – be accepting.

If the answers here aren’t to your liking, then go elsewhere. I think you’ll find some of those other places far less forgiving.

I suggest a couple of apologies are in order, then maybe you’ll get more advice, If not, then I, for one, hope that everyone considers this thread dead.

No-one MAKES you respond to a thread mate, or are you controlled completely by your desperate need to communicate even if it's irrelevant??? appologise? me? are you joking? Get a life and go answer some questions you know the answer to, if there are any.
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby johnny h » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:53 pm

deadman wrote:I asked a simple question and got bollox replies, the Ableton quote was the OPPOSITE of what i said which proved he didn't even read it, so WHY POST!!!!???? i agreed with the other guy and thanked him because HE'S IS THE ONLY PERSON WHO HAS REPLIED WITH THE EXPERIENCED OPINION I ASKED FOR!!! the ONLY one! out of all the posts, it's YOUR unhelpful timewasting crap that has ruined this thread, it was not me, get a life and stop replying to peoples questions when you have NO ANSWERS for them!! loser!

I just scanned all the caps in this post so I couldn't be bothered to read it. Its surely just a sad angry-man whinge.

Nobody wants to help people with no manners. Give your caps lock a rest, see a therapist and work through your anger problems. Come back when you've learnt some rudimentary social skills.
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby Studio Support Gnome » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:01 pm

or not..... indeed, bye bye.....
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby Zukan » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:04 pm

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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby 4TrackMadman » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:09 am

Overall what I've seen from PT in terms of audio interface and converters has been lower quality than similarly priced units from other companies. I am not sure exactly in your specific scenario but I am willing to bet that the RME/Apogee would be better quality that the 03.

If you don't like the midi in Logic - why not give Digital Performer a try? I found that to be the most robust app for midi out there. With their crossgrade package you'd only spend $350 I think.
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby desmond » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:43 am

I must remember this conversational approach next time I'm at a dinner party.

I'm sure it will work just as well in real life as it obviously does on the interwebs...

The guy does have a point about Logic though - I think there are some great things it could do to improve parts of the sequencer, especially for this style of programming.

Unfortunately, of late, everything seems very audio-focused...
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby MadManDan » Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:06 am

deadman wrote:
The Elf wrote:+1

A forum is a place for discussion. It is not anyone’s ‘service-level-guaranteed’ personal help line. Ask for help, but don’t *demand* it.

A forum is not a place to demand personalised, targeted answers to your specific problem. Ask, by all means, but be gracious. People are giving their time, knowledge and skills for free. Accept that respondents might not always give you the answer you want to hear. Some will misunderstand – provide guidance. Some will suggest alternatives – be considerate of such suggestions. Others will simply take the chance to answer (or ask) a different question – be accepting.

If the answers here aren’t to your liking, then go elsewhere. I think you’ll find some of those other places far less forgiving.

I suggest a couple of apologies are in order, then maybe you’ll get more advice, If not, then I, for one, hope that everyone considers this thread dead.

No-one MAKES you respond to a thread mate, or are you controlled completely by your desperate need to communicate even if it's irrelevant??? appologise? me? are you joking? Get a life and go answer some questions you know the answer to, if there are any.

deadman wrote:I asked a simple question and got bollox replies, the Ableton quote was the OPPOSITE of what i said which proved he didn't even read it, so WHY POST!!!!???? i agreed with the other guy and thanked him because HE'S IS THE ONLY PERSON WHO HAS REPLIED WITH THE EXPERIENCED OPINION I ASKED FOR!!! the ONLY one! out of all the posts, it's YOUR unhelpful timewasting crap that has ruined this thread, it was not me, get a life and stop replying to peoples questions when you have NO ANSWERS for them!! loser!


Wow ! Deadman, you really seem to get along well with people. What line of work are you in? You seem like one of those people who makes sure all your co-workers and superiors KNOW that YOU’RE in charge LOL
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby Steve Hill » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:23 am

I'm tempted to lock this now that the OP has, as it were, passed on. But does anyone know if any sequencer will actually solve the original question? I'm not at all convinced PT is the answer either. There may not be one?
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby Richie Royale » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:53 am

Steve Hill wrote:I'm tempted to lock this now that the OP has, as it were, passed on. But does anyone know if any sequencer will actually solve the original question? I'm not at all convinced PT is the answer either. There may not be one?

I was thinking about this on my way to work and I think only a hardware sequencer would be able to do what the OP is looking for, but my exeprience of DAWs is limited. I thought of Numerology, but I don't think that would do what he wants.
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Re: Sound quality difference btwn, logic/apogee + protools 8 le

Postby johnny h » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:07 pm

Steve Hill wrote:I'm tempted to lock this now that the OP has, as it were, passed on. But does anyone know if any sequencer will actually solve the original question? I'm not at all convinced PT is the answer either. There may not be one?

I don't think any sequencer would solve the problems of a man with those anger problems!

Cubase is pretty good for midi though.
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