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China Cones

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China Cones

Postby OneWorld » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:19 pm

I have the problem where my monitors are placed on a desk, and even though I have some neoprene between the monitors and the desk, the desk still resonates and with some really bassy stuff, the desk makes the floor vibrate, when I have it really notched up of course. Would China be more effective in reducing this vibration. I would have though something solid, like the cones would be less effective than an absorbent material?
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Re: China Cones

Postby Martin Walker » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:42 pm

Your mileage may vary - I’ve tried the China Cones and they do make a difference, and Dave Gilmour’s sound guy swears by them, but they also raise your loudspeakers by over an inch and this could result in a change of sound relative to your room modes, and are rather expensive :beamup:

If youre desk still vibrates with neoprene isolating your loudsepakers you could try Mopads (make sure they’re loaded into compression by adding extra weights on top of your louadspeakers if necessary).

However, I suspect the cause is more likely to be a ramshackle desk - try bracing it underneath to reinforce it, or buy a more solid one.


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Re: China Cones

Postby OneWorld » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:33 pm

This might sound completely balmy, but I have considered suspending the monitors from a beam, by bungee clips. My rationale being that the elastic properties of the bungees would soak up the vibrations and the bass especially would be dissipated, and not vibrate through the desk - which is relatively substantial and I do crank up the sound sometimes!
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Re: China Cones

Postby Blue Lizard » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:37 pm

Due to space restrictions in my control room, I went from dedicated speaker stands to having my monitors (TB2SA's) on the desktop. I used a combination of MoPads, China Cones and DIY (12"x12"x2" polished granite slabs from B&Q's outdoor section).

From the desktop up: MoPads -> granite slabs -> China Cones -> Monitors

I found that this arrangement worked so well that I ended up sending back the Primacoustic Recoil Stabilisers that I had ordered as an intended upgrade, because they didn't do anything appreciably better than the MoPad/CC setup I was already using.
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Re: China Cones

Postby TurboD » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:11 pm

@ One World:

Nice idea, but not a very acoustically sound one! Speakers need to be completely anchored stably by a system that will not allow the cabinets to move. Otherwise, every time a voltage moves the cone in the speaker, the cabinet will move very slightly causing poor transient response, distorted stereo imaging and problems with time of arrival.
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Re: China Cones

Postby Wlouch » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:39 pm

Once you have dcoupled the monitors can I also suggest monitoring at lower levels, you get a better balance that way. To the point where you could mix it whilst having a conversation in the room at the same time, obviously not recommended, but just so you get an idea of the volume i mean.

Turn it up to get the low end thumping and levelled, then turn it down again. I usually monitor at around the optimal fletcher munson curve, when loud, so thats very moderate at around 83dB, sometimes louder for fun, but only for short periods, then blam, back down to barely audible.

Trust me when i say it really tidies things up. and you dont fatigue your ears. Mixing is about clarity, excitement and balance. Always mix lower with this in mind, and then once you are done, turn it the hell up, it will be lovely.

my 2 pence.
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Re: China Cones

Postby OneWorld » Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:36 pm

Thanks for the info all of you - some good tips there
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Re: China Cones

Postby Andi » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:26 pm

I've seen China Cones advertised and wondered what they are intended to do. I presume that they are cones of china (like pottery)? which doesn't seem like anything particularly useful. Do they isolate, decouple? I fitted a set Organic Beechwood knobs on my M-Patch 2 which don't appear to give quite as much "luxuriant and rich, almost multidimentional trancendance" to my sound as the adverts suggested, so I'm now a bit cynical about some of this stuff.

:beamup:
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Re: China Cones

Postby Gone To Lunch » Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:56 pm

I had a similar problem with my monitors (KRK Rokit 5s) shaking my desktop, which is already heavily braced by the way. I made some de-couplers out of a scrap sandwich. From the top down : 2mm steel plate, glued to two 12.5mm layers of neoprene strip sitting on a 38mm slab of MDF. I had calculated the height increase in advance such that my ears are level with the middle of the cones. The KRKs have some sort of non-slip stuff on their bottoms which almost adheres to the steel plate, which I had covered with Gaffa tape.

Works a treat.
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Re: China Cones

Postby . . . Delete This User . . . » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:41 pm

china cones and other such devices essentially seem to work by reducing the area of contact, and thus total energy transfer, also,as a product of that they eliminate panel resonance interference.... (the base of the speaker cabinet interacting with the top plate of the speaker stand or desk or whatever... )

normal Hifi style spikes do much the same thing,

there may be some difference in the behaviour of metal spikes and china cones, but they essentially do the same thing, and china cones don't require a threaded insert in the base of the cabinet.


much of the same effect can be had from 4 balls of blutack....
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Re: China Cones

Postby shufflebeat » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:59 pm

Gone To Lunch wrote:I made some de-couplers out of a scrap sandwich. From the top down : 2mm steel plate, glued to two 12.5mm layers of neoprene strip sitting on a 38mm slab of MDF

Call me a choosey eater but that's not much of a sandwich.
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Re: China Cones

Postby Andi » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:27 am

idris y draig wrote:china cones and other such devices essentially seem to work by reducing the area of contact, and thus total energy transfer, also,as a product of that they eliminate panel resonance interference.... (the base of the speaker cabinet interacting with the top plate of the speaker stand or desk or whatever... )

normal Hifi style spikes do much the same thing,

there may be some difference in the behaviour of metal spikes and china cones, but they essentially do the same thing, and china cones don't require a threaded insert in the base of the cabinet.


much of the same effect can be had from 4 balls of blutack....

I've used Blutack for years - I remember recommending it to a friend who isn't averse to spending £Ks at a time to improve his hi-fi but understands little - his wife told me on the quiet that he reckoned the blutack was the best improvement he'd made to his system in several thousands of pounds spent. Be funny if it wasn't so sad.

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Re: China Cones

Postby Guy Johnson » Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:35 am

TurboD wrote:@ One World:

Nice idea, but not a very acoustically sound one! Speakers need to be completely anchored stably by a system that will not allow the cabinets to move. Otherwise, every time a voltage moves the cone in the speaker, the cabinet will move very slightly causing poor transient response, distorted stereo imaging and problems with time of arrival.
Not at all sure about those assertions! The mass of the speaker box and components will be huge, especially compared to the mass of the treble driver. Only with the lower frequencies will there be any audible effect, and I bet mostly that will be below the LF cutoff-point.

Much much worse will be the effects of cabinet vibrations & the minute back-and forwards motions of the box when transmitted through a desk's surface, or a floor and walls — vibrations in solids travel much faster than in air, which can lead to bass smearing and comb filtering ... hence all the various isolation / transmission doodads and types of stands on the market.

It's a fascinating business experimenting with stands, sponge, slabs and flexibly hanging speakers. As well as improving the room acoustics... Well ... Fascinating to me; sadly not so to the laws of nature that arise from the girly-persons (mother, sister, girlfriend, housemate) in one's life, who will always go for 'looks' over sounds :tongue:
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