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Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby jaminem » Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:35 pm

Never understood why Waves got a bad rap, but I suspect mostly due to misinformation.
I'll try and give a balanced view:

As a Waves, Sountoys, Fabfilter, Softube and UAD user I have had no more issue with Waves than I have with any of the others.

The plugins are really good and there are some plugs they make that you can't really get anywhere else - Vocal/bass rider and renaissance bass spring to mind. The other stuff (API collection for example) sound great.

I really don't have a problem with WUP if the trade off is decent support and on the one instance where I had cause to call them my issue was resolve really quickly. It should be made clear that you DO NOT have to pay WUP until you need to upgrade for compatibility purposes - an OS change being the most obvious as described above. The plugins work fine whatever your WUP status.

I don't see this as any different than when I upgraded to Soundtoys 5 for Win 10 compatibility, or the upgrade price for Fabfilter Pro 2. Same thing in my head, and true you don't have to pay to upgrade UAD but the new plugs consume ever more DSP so you end up buying another card to run them on.

Fact is you're paying for more than the cost of the plugins in ALL cases (unless they are free ones obvs) in one way or another and the reality is you're paying the most for UAD, as the cards are well over what you pay for WUP, upgrades, new versions or whatever but then you do get the DSP grunt 'thrown in' so I don't begrudge that either...

Finally, never had a problem with iLOK for Waves, soundtoys, softube etc but waves can be licensed to a PC, a USB stick or iLOK now so if you don't want iLOK, you don't have to have it.

Personal experiences aside they are as good as any of the main competitors, nearly always on sale and are great sounding, easy to use professional tools.
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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby alexis » Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:21 am

Thank you everyone for such a balanced presentation!

Re: "Official Waves resellers" ... do you mean brick and mortar resellers, or on-line? I found an on-line WavesUniverse http://www.wavesuniverse.com, they actually came out a little more expensive than Waves.com itself for 3 plug-ins, as Waves.com has a 30%-35%-40% off deal going on now (is that kind of thing usual?).

Any other on-line "official" resellers people can recommend?

Thanks -
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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby scw » Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:46 am

I meant on-line.

With places like audiodeluxe http://audiodeluxe.com the discount only appears after you have added the item to your cart. The Waves discount is applied in addition to their discount. Others include JRRshop

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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby desmond » Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:12 pm

What is the "bad press" or which you speak?

Can you provide some links?

The only stuff I can think of is old, from the early 2000s, WUP policies, pricing, installation complexities and that horrible "Ban Piracy" campaign, none of which have been relevant since years now.

Can't think I've seen any "bad press" regarding Waves in years, so I'm not sure what you are referring too..?
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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby Sam Inglis » Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:07 pm

jaminem wrote:The plugins are really good and there are some plugs they make that you can't really get anywhere else - Vocal/bass rider and renaissance bass spring to mind.

Waves have done some innovative things, but personally, I wouldn't count those plug-ins among them. Vocal Rider was pre-empted by Quiet Arts' Wave Rider for instance, and there are a fair number of other bass enhancer effects.
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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby alexis » Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:45 pm

[quote="Sam Inglis"...Vocal Rider was pre-empted by Quiet Arts' Wave Rider for instance...[/quote]

And in turn Melda's MAutoVolume, it is reasonable to say.
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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby James Perrett » Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:40 am

desmond wrote:The only stuff I can think of is old, from the early 2000s, WUP policies, pricing, installation complexities and that horrible "Ban Piracy" campaign, none of which have been relevant since years now.

Can't think I've seen any "bad press" regarding Waves in years, so I'm not sure what you are referring too..?

Have they really changed that much? I find it hard to believe. My personal experience is that they seem to spend all their efforts trying to gain new customers rather than look after their old customers. They were one of the first companies to produce decent plug-ins but their policies from the early 2000's left some of their early customers like me vowing to never buy any of their products again. There are plenty of decent alternatives around now.
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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby The Red Bladder » Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:55 pm

Why?

1. That whole iLok thing.
2. The cost.
3. Reaper plugs are better and free - as are many others.
4. The company is litigious, to the point of absurdity and beyond.
5. Waves plugs can sometimes bring a system down.
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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby zenguitar » Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:29 am

The Red Bladder wrote:Why?

1. That whole iLok thing.
2. The cost.
3. Reaper plugs are better and free - as are many others.
4. The company is litigious, to the point of absurdity and beyond.
5. Waves plugs can sometimes bring a system down.

OK, so apart from the whole iLok thing, the cost, Reaper (and other) plugins being better and free, the litigation, and the system instability...

Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Andy :beamup:
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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby jlahtela » Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:20 am

zenguitar wrote:
The Red Bladder wrote:Why?

1. That whole iLok thing.
2. The cost.
3. Reaper plugs are better and free - as are many others.
4. The company is litigious, to the point of absurdity and beyond.
5. Waves plugs can sometimes bring a system down.

OK, so apart from the whole iLok thing, the cost, Reaper (and other) plugins being better and free, the litigation, and the system instability...

Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Andy :beamup:

I think those five reasons cause never ending bashing of Waves plugins... And they come as "never good for anything" in people's mind... And then they keep bashing those.

I often hear when discussing about mixing sentences like:" I will never ever use waves plugin because [pick reason 1-5], they are so bad and no use" :roll:

One thing however we could add to list... They are not trust that those every time work. This is the point what worries myself the most. Many time some Waves plugin just stop work it disappears from DAW / license do not work.
I am can fight with first time install issue... But I need to be able to trust it works always after that.

Also Waves got weird compatibility issues with Reaper in past years... Plugin where loaded successfully, but it did not do anything. This I think is only one DAW compatibility issue and I think this is fixed as Waves released info that it is now 100% compatible with Reaper.
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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby Guest » Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:56 pm

I don't rate and 'ave 'ad loadsa prob's wiv Soundtoys, i also think they're fiddly and awkward to get anything decent out of them, especially quickly.

All sorts of things, cause all sorts of probs, wiv all diff sorts of set-ups, DAW's/Pc's/Mac's etc, goes wiv the territory.

On Cube 5, Win 7 I've 'ad no prob's wiv Waves, they're wicked fabulous sounding plugins that will enhance and improve any mix, no matter how good it already is, i particularily like the guitar and vocal plugins, (Maserati Vox plugin is wicked innit) and i also use the SSl strips, compressors, the delays and reverbs are also spot on.

I also use Fab filters Pro Q a lot, very nice/subtle & easy to use, i also mainly use Lexicon Rev's... i mainly mix wiv Waves, i think this maybe also brings a type of uniformatity to the mix, sort of, but it's not the be all and end all, a great track don't ness need loadsa state of the art plugins, voice und geetar would more than suffice, innit.
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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby Combo » Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:03 am

LdashD wrote:I don't rate and 'ave 'ad loadsa prob's wiv Soundtoys,
I had a problem with Soundtoys once. Turns out it was caused by Waves plug-ins. I was trying to run 2 different versions at once. When I say trying, I was succeeding as far as Waves was concerned. But causing other problems with I-lok. Quick WUP update and away I went. Easy when you know what to look for.

Big fan of the Ren compressor, here. It hasn't been updated since about v5, when they took off the pretty UI. So now days it is tiny. My go to for side chaining. Instances all over everything. Ren verb early reflections can still sound quite nice sometimes as well.
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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby Guest » Mon Aug 22, 2016 4:12 pm

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Not an expert.
----------------------------------------------------
That last line says it all dunnit bruv.

Like i said, "All sorts of things, cause all sorts of probs, wiv all diff sorts of set-ups, DAW's/Pc's/Mac's etc, goes wiv the territory."

Waves wasn't on board, and the prob's were not tech ones, they were aesthetic... when it comes to the aesthetic, I'm actually an expert, & then some... link's at the bottom, you're more than welcome to disagree with me.
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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby Combo » Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:41 am

LdashD wrote:That last line says it all dunnit bruv.
I'm not an expert. Freely admit as much. As you so perspicaciously observed. Still, I solved the problem. which was more than the help desk did.

Must be just clever.

Edit: won't be making that my signature any time soon.
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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:57 am

Combo wrote:Must be just clever.

Join da club bruv, only you're a lot cleverer than moi cos i 'ad to google perpsi, er persp, pespi, oh sod it, that word you wrote.
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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby Pete Kaine » Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:10 pm

zenguitar wrote:OK, so apart from the whole iLok thing, the cost, Reaper (and other) plugins being better and free, the litigation, and the system instability...

Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Sounds vaguely Monty Python.
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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby zenguitar » Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:24 pm

Glad someone spotted it Pete :thumbup:

Andy :beamup:
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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby Mark Knutson » Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:54 pm

James Perrett wrote:...their policies from the early 2000's left some of their early customers like me vowing to never buy any of their products again...

I remember buying the Renaissance Pack or some such. They made it obsolete so after a windows upgrade I would have had to buy a brand new product of some sort--no upgrade path. I have seen so much human misery in forums from Waves copy protection or WUP or whatever, that I see no reason to wipe the slate clean and approach them as if they are an entirely different animal today--more power to those that do. Perhaps short sighted, but it really bugged me as I didn't have much money back then and hoped that renaissance pack would last me some years.

And back then, they had a commanding market presence as the premier producer of 'pro' plug ins due to pro tools in big studios--to me, kind of like wanting a les paul because jimmy page plays one. Today, everybody and their uncle are producing plug ins, and the market is commoditizing.
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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby alexis » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:13 pm

I should just add, as OP, that this wknd I downloaded the trials for 3 plug-ins (1 of them a 4-pak of plug-ins), used them, bought 1 (the 4-pak) and have used that - all without incident.
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Re: Why have Waves plug-ins gotten such bad press?

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:08 pm

For now I'm sticking wiv Win 7, others ain't even though there's loadsa prob's wiv Win 10, we pays our money...

People keep suggesting this that or the other plugin other than Waves, that's fair enough, i don't 'ave any prob's wiv my set up, prob cos it's all pretty dated by now, maybe that's why i write so much music cos that's wot i wanna do, not FAFF about wiv the latest op system or plug in etc, that 'appens anyway wiv me own set up regardless.

Waves does it for me cos they sound great and they're dead easy to get an excellent professional result from, even some the presets are on the money, if not, again, dead easy to tweak, if i 'ad serious prob's i'd ditch 'em at the drop of a 'at, but i don't so i er, don't.

Updating is not necessarily always the best route, perhaps it's the updating that's the prob.

One thing i 'ave noticed down the years is those that know most about the inner workings of comps, or processors or software or hardware etc & so on, & on & on & on & then some, know least about putting a 'alf decent track together, it stands to reason cos learning other stuff means you ain't making music.

I have Cube 5, Win 7, Waves complete, Lexicon rev's, Fab filter pro Q, plus a few others i selected by hand, er ear, all about 5 years old.

Wot works for you works for you, it's the getting (things) to work that's the problem.

If you can't find a way round say, Waves prob's, just make sure you get summink that's as good or better, if there is anything better that is.

This advice is for wannabe songwriters, not engineers, cos engineers need to know all this shit, understand and compare one to the other etc, that's part and parcel of their bleedin' job, I'm a songwriter, wot do you wannabes er wanna be? Dat is da question innit.
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