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Tackling room resonances

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Re: Tackling room resonances

PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:15 pm
by Sam Spoons
TNGator wrote:PS...forgot to mention Mike...I was avoiding using headphones to mix but then I noticed you mentioned "open cans" not closed ones. Im guessing the open cans let in a little of the room?

Open cans don't really let any room in because you are not exciting the room but they do sound more natural.

Re: Tackling room resonances

PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:17 pm
by TNGator
Sam Spoons wrote:
TNGator wrote:PS...forgot to mention Mike...I was avoiding using headphones to mix but then I noticed you mentioned "open cans" not closed ones. Im guessing the open cans let in a little of the room?

Open cans don't really let any room in because you are not exciting the room but they do sound more natural.
Ah. Yeah I dont mind cans when recording or lets say listening to educational vids when trying to hear the effect of an EQ or compressor. But i couldnt mix with them. Id feel closed in and claustrophobic.

Re: Tackling room resonances

PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:48 pm
by Mike Stranks
Have you ever tried good open-back headphones? All headphones are not the same... :lol:

Re: Tackling room resonances

PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:51 pm
by TNGator
Mike Stranks wrote:Have you ever tried good open-back headphones? All headphones are not the same... :lol:
No Mike, I only have a pair of closed ones. They are great for recording but Ive never tried open ones. Might be worth investing. Like closed ones, are these designed for studio use as opposed to everyday hi fi headphones?

Re: Tackling room resonances

PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:17 pm
by Sam Spoons
TNGator wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:
TNGator wrote:PS...forgot to mention Mike...I was avoiding using headphones to mix but then I noticed you mentioned "open cans" not closed ones. Im guessing the open cans let in a little of the room?

Open cans don't really let any room in because you are not exciting the room but they do sound more natural.
Ah. Yeah I dont mind cans when recording or lets say listening to educational vids when trying to hear the effect of an EQ or compressor. But i couldnt mix with them. Id feel closed in and claustrophobic.

Nobody is suggesting you mix exclusively on cans, just that you can use them to check the bass.

Re: Tackling room resonances

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:34 am
by TNGator
Sam Spoons wrote:
TNGator wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:
TNGator wrote:PS...forgot to mention Mike...I was avoiding using headphones to mix but then I noticed you mentioned "open cans" not closed ones. Im guessing the open cans let in a little of the room?

Open cans don't really let any room in because you are not exciting the room but they do sound more natural.
Ah. Yeah I dont mind cans when recording or lets say listening to educational vids when trying to hear the effect of an EQ or compressor. But i couldnt mix with them. Id feel closed in and claustrophobic.

Nobody is suggesting you mix exclusively on cans, just that you can use them to check the bass.
Worth a shot. The car test or Ipod test will be needed in the end to check the sound outside of the room.

Re: Tackling room resonances

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:27 am
by Mike Stranks
TNGator wrote:
Mike Stranks wrote:Have you ever tried good open-back headphones? All headphones are not the same... :lol:
No Mike, I only have a pair of closed ones. They are great for recording but Ive never tried open ones. Might be worth investing. Like closed ones, are these designed for studio use as opposed to everyday hi fi headphones?

Yes; there are many different brands, models and prices of open and semi-open aimed at the studio market. People here who've commented use various makes and models, but some 'firm favourites' are:

AKG K701/702/712
Sennheiser HD650

and others that will doubtless be mentioned!

Re: Tackling room resonances

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:19 am
by Sam Spoons
TNGator wrote:Worth a shot. The car test or Ipod test will be needed in the end to check the sound outside of the room.

Yes indeed :thumbup:

Re: Tackling room resonances

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:39 pm
by TNGator
Now this is interesting. So i was watching a vid done by Bobby Owsinski (apparantly a well known mixer etc). He was addressing a college in Canada and talking about home studios. As part of the usual DIY suspects such as Rockwoll he also mentioned everyday carpet underlay. Does it work? Well its not something that's expensive at all so I guess worth a shot. So i was looking at a web site here in Dublin of carpet suppliers and looked their underlay stuff. Have a look at his. Its a product called Acoustalay. And it says in its specs it has a 19dB reduction. It appears to be a product to install if perhaps you live above someone and dont want noise disturbing them.
Now, at only 20 euro for a roll certainly worth a shot. But should we avoid a product that boats sound proofing as opposed to sound treatment. After all, sound proofing and sound treatment are very different animals. I'd never heard of this product before. Anyone here ever come across this?
https://www.ie.screwfix.com/polyolefin- ... y-15m.html
I then found this site in the UK also selling the acoustalay product.
https://www.soundreduction.co.uk/sectors/domestic/

Re: Tackling room resonances

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:00 pm
by Sam Spoons
Sounds like it might work as a 'limp mass membrane' but you'd need to check prices of 'proper' stuff.

Re: Tackling room resonances

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:08 pm
by Hugh Robjohns
I doubt it has enough mass to be very effective as a LMM, although it might work in multiple layers...

I imagine it's really designed to attenuate direct mechanical vibration from footfall noise, rather than deal with energy from acoustic air movement.

H

Re: Tackling room resonances

PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:26 pm
by Sam Spoons
:thumbup:

Re: Tackling room resonances

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:58 am
by TNGator
Hugh Robjohns wrote:I doubt it has enough mass to be very effective as a LMM, although it might work in multiple layers...

I imagine it's really designed to attenuate direct mechanical vibration from footfall noise, rather than deal with energy from acoustic air movement.

H
:thumbup: I think so...it does seem to be geared towards footfall etc. But for 20 euro a roll it might be worth the experiment.and as you say I can layer it to get say 10cm or such. I'll keep y'all posted.

Re: Tackling room resonances

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:21 am
by Wonks
Note that it has a waterproof membrane layer. That means that sound waves won't pass through it like it does through open celled foam, so multiple layers will not be anything like as effective as rockwool. For bass traps, you can normally get away with one impermeable layer (as long as it is free to move), but I'd have thought that once you get to two layers, especially if pressed together, you won't get any further worthwhile improvement by adding more.

Re: Tackling room resonances

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:19 pm
by TNGator
Wonks wrote:Note that it has a waterproof membrane layer. That means that sound waves won't pass through it like it does through open celled foam, so multiple layers will not be anything like as effective as rockwool. For bass traps, you can normally get away with one impermeable layer (as long as it is free to move), but I'd have thought that once you get to two layers, especially if pressed together, you won't get any further worthwhile improvement by adding more.

Good point. Which brings us back to the question of sound proofing versus sound treatment. Well it was worth looking into I guess. We can only experiment unless your lucky enough to be qualified in acoustics sciences. And i can barely spell those words.