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Touch screen monitors.

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Touch screen monitors.

Postby Zukan » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:13 am

I now have carpel tunnel thingy and am therefore looking for a decent 22-29" touchscreen that is at least 10 point TS and doesn't have an hour's latency.

Anyone explored this area with intent?
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Re: Touch screen monitors.

Postby Kwackman » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:31 am

Slate Raven?
No personal experience, but I watched a mate doing some post prod audio mixing (called dubbing in my day!) on one and I can see why he likes using it. YMMV!
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Re: Touch screen monitors.

Postby Zukan » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:12 am

I really was hoping not to have to sleep with anyone...again...Kwack.
Anything a bit more ethnic priced?
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Re: Touch screen monitors.

Postby ManFromGlass » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:35 am

Hopefully it's not too late for you but I keep my carpal tunnel under control by switching off between the Evoluent vertical mouse, regular mouse and if things are really sore, a trackball. I also tried a graphics pad with success. A friend wrapped his graphics pad pen with a great wad of cloth so it was chunky and easy to hold.
Otherwise the only touchpad like experience I have is with the iPad.
Good luck.
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Re: Touch screen monitors.

Postby Folderol » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:50 am

So far I've not been able to get on with anything that uses touch screens - fat dry fingers seem to be a problem :(
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Re: Touch screen monitors.

Postby ef37a » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:32 am

Folderol wrote:So far I've not been able to get on with anything that uses touch screens - fat dry fingers seem to be a problem :(

Same here Will 'cept mine are slim and dry. I look like a reet tech numpty trying to log in at the doctors!

Mind you! Dry digits have probably save my life a time or two in my much younger, much bolder electrical days! Ouch! Instead of Gahhh.

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Re: Touch screen monitors.

Postby Matt Houghton » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:31 am

I'm using an Acer T272HL. https://www.scan.co.uk/products/27-acer-t272hlbmjjz-touch-screen-va-led-monitor-2x-hdmi-vga-1920x1080-300cd-m2-100m1-5ms-speakers-um

Note that no DAW fully supports multitouch yet (some claim to, but believe me, they don't!). So you really need to be using one of these in combination with mouse/trackpad and potentially a control surface. For me, the Acer plus a Logitech T650 trackpad, plus a Behringer BCR2000 set up for Cubase does nicely. As per Robin Vincent's recommendation, I prefer to use the multitouch screen angled at a lowish level in front of me (as if it were a mixing desk) and have another screen of the same size above. Then arrange your DAW's windows to display the Arrange page on one screen, the Mixer on the other; and set up a shortcut to switch these windows to the opposite screens. It works really well.

The only real advantage to using a touchscreen at the moment IMO is that you can draw automation in with your finger. That's WAY easier and quicker than any other method. The biggest problems are that (1) your hand/finger obscures what you're trying to look at as you touch it; (2) you really need a decent sized screen in order that your fingers are small enough relative to the various controls! 27" is the bare minimum; I'd recommend larger.

There are some apps that can give you radial menus, which are worth a look. That can get you around a DAW quite quickly. (I've given up on that, though, as I use so many different pieces of software it takes too long to configure!)

TBH I wouldn't recommend going down the multitouch route unless you've already tried a system and liked it. It's not cheap, and it's not going to be for everyone, particularly until the DAW manufacturers start supporting it properly.

Have you looked into other HID options that might solve your problem? Eg graphics tablet?
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Re: Touch screen monitors.

Postby Matt Houghton » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:34 am

Oh, btw, when looking at specs, you'll find a lot of manufacturers talking about speed/latency. Note that they're typically describing the latency of the display, not of the touch interface. So some give very impressive 'latency' figures, but have relatively sluggish touch interfaces... and when I last looked it was hard to find comparable specs for anything other than the display performance...
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Re: Touch screen monitors.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:39 am

Matt Houghton wrote:The biggest problems are that (1) your hand/finger obscures what you're trying to look at as you touch it; (2) you really need a decent sized screen in order that your fingers are small enough relative to the various controls!

I once reviewed a 'touchscreen' system made by Wacom that was operated with one of their tablet pens, and that worked extremely well with the screen positioned horizontally (or at a shallow angle). It had all the immediacy and direct action benefits of a modern touchscreen, but with the benefits of no finger grease smearing across the glass after a few hours' use and no hand or podgy fingers obscuring what you were trying to adjust. For things like altering or setting automation, audio editing, and so on it was an impressively quick and intuitive way of working.

You can use capacitive stylus pens with most modern touchscreens too, so if the hand/finger obstruction thing is an issue, trying a suitable stylus might be the way to go.

H
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Re: Touch screen monitors.

Postby Matt Houghton » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:19 am

TBH Hugh, I find it's that my forearm is forever obscuring important bits of the screen. And then there's the issue of always losing the stylus... as I did when I had one with an early tablet! And then there's the issue of positioning your wrist so it's comfortable to 'write' with a 'pen' like that. If you need that kind of accuracy, you're probably better off with a 'fingertip' stylus — effectively a thimble with a fine point! But it still doesn't solve the issue of small rotary controls in plugins and so on that just don't work well with touchscreens. And it also doesn't work so well if you're intent on using the multitouch side of things to move multiple faders at once (eg via Devil Technologies DTouch or some such overlay).
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Re: Touch screen monitors.

Postby varunbkk » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:26 am

Speaking of DAW's, I believe Soundbridge by Lumit Audio is oriented towards predominantly touch interaction.

One of my acquaintances is a fairly well-known psy-trance producer, who's been involved with the design and development of a lot of the stock instruments & plugins within Soundbridge.
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Re: Touch screen monitors.

Postby Matt Houghton » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:07 am

varunbkk wrote:I believe Soundbridge by Lumit Audio is oriented towards predominantly touch interaction.

Thanks, I'd not been aware of that one. I'll check that out.

Though one problem I have is that to date the best-sounding plug-ins aren't configured for touch. So no matter what the DAW, you're still going to run into problems that necessitate a 'hybrid workflow', for want of a less ugly phrase.
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Re: Touch screen monitors.

Postby Martin Walker » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:44 pm

ManFromGlass wrote:Hopefully it's not too late for you but I keep my carpal tunnel under control by switching off between the Evoluent vertical mouse, regular mouse and if things are really sore, a trackball. I also tried a graphics pad with success. A friend wrapped his graphics pad pen with a great wad of cloth so it was chunky and easy to hold.
Otherwise the only touchpad like experience I have is with the iPad.
Good luck.

Hi Eddie,

Another thing that occurs is to enquire whether or not your carpal tunnel problems are (as with so many people) basically in one hand.

If so, it would save an awful lot of money if you could try adapting to use your other hand for mouse duties, or switch to some of MFG's options above.

I switched from using my right to my left hand for mouse duties some years ago, and it only took about a week to adjust.

Worth considering anyway! :thumbup:


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Re: Touch screen monitors.

Postby Zukan » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:52 am

Already doing that Martin. I'm a bit lucky as I trained to use my weaker hand years ago but it still feels 'not right'.
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Re: Touch screen monitors.

Postby Martin Walker » Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:29 pm

Zukan wrote:Already doing that Martin. I'm a bit lucky as I trained to use my weaker hand years ago but it still feels 'not right'.

So sorry to hear that Eddie :cry:

Well it was worth mentioning anyway, just in case someone else finds themselves in a similar situation :beamup:


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Re: Touch screen monitors.

Postby awjoe » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:40 pm

Zukan wrote:Already doing that Martin. I'm a bit lucky as I trained to use my weaker hand years ago but it still feels 'not right'.

Well, your left hand is, by definition, not right. (Ahem...hangover insider joke from the Lounge.)

I've been through this thread about touchscreens over on the Mixbus forum. Aside from some predictable Internet drama, it had some interesting stuff in it. Check what Bruce Rothwell says about putting a piece of glass over the touchscreen to improve its accuracy.

http://mixbus.harrisonconsoles.com/forum/thread-4832.html
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Re: Touch screen monitors.

Postby Folderol » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:57 pm

I have difficulty understanding how that could possibly work!

Modern touch screens are capacitive. By adding a layer of glass you are increasing the distance between you and the screen, therefore reducing the capacitance, and (one would think) sensitivity.
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Re: Touch screen monitors.

Postby Agharta » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:12 pm

As well as a touch screen monitor there's also the possibility of using a Tablet as a secondary touch input device using MIDI over WiFi.
I looked at that in the past but haven't implemented it so only have research notes rather than hands on experience.

Here are some Windows tools from one company that interested me:
http://level6productions.com/

You can buy cheap refurbished Dell Windows tablets from here amongst others and I've dealt with them in the past and found them to be good:
http://mcscom.co.uk/shop/dell-tablets-a ... ue-11-pro/

Better to go with the Venue 11 7140 and its passive whereas the 713x models have a fan and a bad reputation.
For a bit more the Latitude 5175 gets my vote as it has more ports I think and a newer chipset and features:
http://mcscom.co.uk/shop/dell-tablets-a ... -in-1-pcs/

You can also buy keyboards for these cheaply which turn them into laptops thus making them more multipurpose and also extend the battery life.

Examples:
Venue 7140 (2GHz, 4GB, 128GB, WWAN, W10) + keyboard dock = £221.
Latitude 5175 (2.8GHz, 4GB, 128GB, WWAN, W10 Pro) + keyboard dock = £298.
Deduct £66 if you don't want the keyboard dock.

An ipad might be a better option but don't have experience of those.
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Re: Touch screen monitors.

Postby Dynamic Mike » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:54 pm

ManFromGlass wrote:Hopefully it's not too late for you but I keep my carpal tunnel under control by switching off between the Evoluent vertical mouse, regular mouse and if things are really sore, a trackball.

I use a mouse at work & a wireless trackball at home. With a trackball all you actually move are your fingers & I find moving it around the desk a few inches every hour or so helps. Takes a week or so to get your speed & at accuracy sorted at maximum cursor speed. Also your can put either your trackball, or the base of your palm on a couple of coasters, which changes the angle of your wrist.

The biggest difference for me though was when I learned to let go of the mouse when I'm thinking/watching/reading/listening.
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