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PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby CSpencer » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:00 am

Re. Acoustic panels try Studiospares.
https://www.studiospares.com
Look under 'Studio Gear' > 'Acoustics'
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:34 am

ShahidM wrote:Accuracy is very hard to define and assess.

It's really not.

You listen to a real voice or whatever in the studio, and you listen to what falls out of the speaker.

I did mention that despite their detailed outlook the Neumann's do make vocals sound somewhat artificial at times.

It is entirely possible that the recording technique made the vocals sound that way, and the speakers are just revealing that. So you have to be really careful that you know your source material, otherwise there's a danger of picking a speakers that makes things sound the way you expect them to sound, rather than the way they really are.

I think a lot of our assessments about monitors are also how we feel that things should sound so objectivity is near impossible.

Exactly, so choice of reference material is critical.

Would love some affordable <£100 acoustic panel recommendations.

Get thee hence to a B&Q, and find thine saw and screwdriver! :D
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ReadySaltedChris » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:51 am

ShahidM wrote:I did mention that despite their detailed outlook the Neumann's do make vocals sound somewhat artifical at times.

I don't think so.
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:05 am

Re acoustic panels Gik seem to be very reasonably priced :-

http://www.gikacoustics.com

But I built my own out of pretty much the same materials (I actually bought the fabric from GIK) and saved about 40%
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby John Willett » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:34 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
ShahidM wrote:Accuracy is very hard to define and assess.

It's really not.

You listen to a real voice or whatever in the studio, and you listen to what falls out of the speaker.

I did mention that despite their detailed outlook the Neumann's do make vocals sound somewhat artificial at times.

It is entirely possible that the recording technique made the vocals sound that way, and the speakers are just revealing that. So you have to be really careful that you know your source material, otherwise there's a danger of picking a speakers that makes things sound the way you expect them to sound, rather than the way they really are.

I think a lot of our assessments about monitors are also how we feel that things should sound so objectivity is near impossible.

Exactly, so choice of reference material is critical.


I do agree with Hugh here.

One of my essential tests of monitors is the spoken word - preferably by someone you know well (and definitely not yourself).

Hear that person live and listen to a recording through the monitors.

And the recording really needs to be done with clean and neutral microphones - or that will show up as well.
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ShahidM » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:43 am

Thanks for all the help!

I couldn't get my hands on any demo sets of the speakers again so I had to go with my gut (and wife's preference) so will be going with the TwoTwos. I do however wonder if the Results6 offer a better deal considering the fact that I am not likely to take full advantage of the digital features of the TwoTwos.

I wonder, Hugh in particular, how do you think the two compare? To my ear (I heard the Results briefly) they sounded great!

Can't wait to hear your opinions!

Cheers,
Shahid
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby Zukan » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:28 am

At this level it's subjective.

The PMCs will be brutal in exposing the room if my past experiences are anything to go by and I am sure Hugh will correct me if I'm being a Trump here.

Personally, I would grab the 310s.
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ef37a » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:39 am

With respect to "listening to real sources"? Surely the whole point of recording is that you are trying to capture a 'performance'?

Recording engineers of old were avid music listeners* of LIVE concerts! Classical music but also jazz and big band. They KNEW what instruments sounded like. How many people in recording today regularly go to concerts and jazz clubs?

I agree that well recorded speech from a neutral microphone is an excellent test but also some recordings of BBC concerts? The In Tune programme Hugh covered in the magazine recently delivers some very 'high fidelity' sound. But, 'the ear' must also get out more! Go and listen to PROPER acoustic music! (wish I could again)

*And many were accomplished musicians and brilliant sight readers.

Do it or lose it.

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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ShahidM » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:50 am

Thanks for the tip Dave!

Anyone made a comparison of the PMC Result6 and TwoTwos? I listened to them with such a significant period of time between them that I don't trust my own judgement fully:s
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:56 am

ShahidM wrote:I wonder, Hugh in particular, how do you think the two compare?

I bought the KH310s and I've not heard anything yet that makes me want to change my mind.

Having said that, the Twotwos are very good indeed, but very expensive. The Twotwo8 is my favourite of the bunch.

The Result6 is a very worthy replacement for the ageing TB2 and defines the new entry level for the PMC range. It's clearly much more affordable than the TwoTwos, but ultimately the Twotwos operate at a higher level of resolution than the Results, as you would expect.

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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ShahidM » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:17 am

Hi Hugh!

Thanks for the reply. I am glad my assessment of the Result6s is similar to yours.

As you can tell, I was torn for months between the 310s and TwoTwo6s and ultimately given that the price I was given for both was very similar and I my wife had a strong preference, I decided on the TwoTwos! I am sure as many have discussed at this price point there is little between monitors as the kind of monitors we are discussing are all quite excellent. I don't think there is a huge gulf in performance between the 310s and 22s and I think that is why I found it so hard to decide. Alas a decision had to be made a my wife was the tipping factor in many ways. There was something about the PMCs that I loved; couldn't quite put my finger on it but I think it's that tweeter!

Let's hope I don't regret my decision! I think I have 14 days to return worst case scenario anyway :roll: Appreciate the advice Hugh!

Cheers!
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ShahidM » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:18 am

I'd actually be curious as to your opinion on the JBL 7 series Hugh. I was quite impressed with the larger 708ps, but ultimately they didn't to my ears trump the neumann and pmcs.
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:42 am

Haven't heard the 8s, only the 5s which I really didn't like at all. Phil Ward reviewed both here:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/jbl-7-series

The tweeter in the PMC Result6 is quite different from that in the Twotwos, and the new D-fins are partly to help the Result 6 sound as close to the TwoTwos as possible in respect of the stereo imaging.

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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ShahidM » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:50 am

Thanks for the link.

Have to agree with you on the 705ps. They are somehow good for their size, but the low end is all over the place and the HF was quite fatiguing. Of course I'm sure that could be EQ'd out, but I didn't think it was a great starting point. For what it's worth I though the 708s were better. Unfortunately, I don't have an SOS subscription at the minute so haven't read Phil Ward's review! :oops:

I thought the D-Fins were just for improved dispersion, but that's really interesting and makes a lot of sense because the TwoTwos have great stereo imaging.

Can I ask, in your review of the TwoTwos you mentioned that they offered a 'similar' midrange clarity to the Neumanns. Do you find that there is a big difference between the PMCs and Neumanns? I know I'm repeating myself here, but please forgive me! I'm trying to get into the specifics of what the differences are. I'm gathering you thought them slightly more neutral and offer a general better frequency range too for the price. I do think the midrange was a touch more detailed. When listening to certain material I could hear slight flaws (particular in foley work on film) more clearly on the Neumanns. A real tough one for me as I'm sure you gathered!

Thanks!
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:04 pm

A well-designed three-way monitor will always have advantages over a two-way. As I said earlier, when I was in the market for new nearfield monitors myself I had the choice of many decent high-end monitors, including the PMC Twotwos and ATC SCM25s... but I put my money down on the KH310s and I don't have any reservations or regrets over that decision whatsoever. They punch way --way-- beyond their price point and there's nothing I would rather have in front of me right now, regardless of price.

If was in the market for a compact two-way to replace my vintage TB2s -- which have provided long and worthy service -- the Result6 would probably be it... although I'd be very tempted with the KH80s if Neumann ever get their act together and release the remote control app!

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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ShahidM » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:12 pm

I take it if the TwosTwos were priced lower they would be a better option to replace your TB2s?

I can see you are very fond indeed of your 310s!! You've been really helpful thanks.
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:35 pm

ShahidM wrote:I take it if the TwosTwos were priced lower they would be a better option to replace your TB2s?

Of course -- but they can't be because of the DSP, active amplification, bespoke drivers etc etc... The Result6 is a very good entry-level compromise to the PMC brand that genuinely replaces (and improves upon) the TB2s.

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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ShahidM » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:20 pm

I was surprised to see that the Result6s dug below 40hz. That's lower than the TwoTwo6s! Did you hear similar bass extension on the TwoTwos or is this an area where the Results offer something new?
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby Stoney » Tue May 01, 2018 5:50 pm

Hi ShahidM,

I had a very similar dilemma last year and went for the Neumanns. I'm very happy with them, but do know what you mean, that when comparing to some other monitors, they seem rather flat and lack depth - whereas the comparison monitor will seem more open.

But I guess this is what you'd want in a monitor (flatness) as the sense of depth might be from slightly hyping the sound, rather than relaying what is there faithfully.

In fact the lack of "spaciousness" was my main concern and I mentioned it on here. I was worried that in mixing, I'd end up trowelling on reverb/delay to get a more spacious sound/depth. However, I think I've grown accustomed to the amount of depth from listening to music on them regularly and I don't think I've suffered from the reverb/space issue.

Cheers,

D

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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ShahidM » Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:20 am

Hi All,

I thought I'd give an update on my situation!

I went with the PMCs, but had a few issues. Firstly some ground looping that I couldnt get rid of. Secondly, every time I switched the speakers off the red limiter light would flash. I couldn't get an answer from my retailer when asking if this normal. Furthermore, the monitors arrived with scuffs and cosmetic marks brand new. So I have opted to go for the Neumanns. I think upon reflection they were probably objectively better although I do think the PMCs are super sweet. They have a slight dip in the mids for me. This can be fixed with dsp but just not worth all the aggro for me.

The Neumanns have a ground lift switch which helped when I demoed them and I'll save my save a significant amount of money so will update you when I receive the Neumanns! Hopefully I wont be disappointed!

All the best,
Shahid
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