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PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

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PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ShahidM » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:05 am

Hi All,

Apologies if I am posting this in the wrong area, but I am looking for a little advice input on a choice between the Neumann KH310s and PMC TwoTwo.6s. I have narrowed my monitor choice down to those two, but can't seem to find a way to decide between the two. They are so drastically different, but I like different things about each.

Would love to know your thoughts, especially from Hugh if possible! Love to know more about your comparison mentioned in your PMC review between the two. I am sure in reality, they are both very capable monitors, but unfortunately I can't get both.

Any thoughts, opinions, advice welcome so please fire away!

Thanks in advance!
Shahid
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby zenguitar » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:31 am

Welcome to the SOS forums. It would help if you let us know where in the world you are. Distributors and dealers really do offer buyers the chance to compare monitors in listening rooms and in your own studio too.

Andy :beamup:
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby John Willett » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:54 am

⬆︎ What Andy said :thumbup:

Both are good, but you really need to hear for yourself - and make sure you include spoken word with the voice of someone you know well (NOT yourself) as that reall y helps in telling you about the quality of a monitor.
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:20 am

Personally I would (and did) go down the KH310 route. The sealed cabinet and midrange driver are the big positives for me. But at this level they are both very good monitors and choice will come down to personal preferences to a large degree, so you really need to listen yourself and ideally in your own room to make the decision.

H
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ShahidM » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:05 am

Thanks for all the replies!

I am based in London, UK. Fortunately, I have tested a number of different monitors in my room and my favourites given pricing were tge PMCs and the Neumanns. I do wonder why the PMCs are dearer than the Neumanns. Is this due to their digital capabilities, brand or manufacture process? I'd be very interested to know.

I will run some spoken word with some voices I am very familiar with. Great suggestion thanks.

Thanks again!
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ShahidM » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:03 pm

Sorry Hugh, I meant to address your point about testing the monitors and testing them in your own room in particular.

I have indeed tested the Neumanns and PMCs in my room, along with some other monitors and narrowed down my search to these two. Unfortunately, there are aspects to both monitors that I like and I am finding it extremely difficult to decide which I prefer overall. There appears to be a stalemate! So I am clutching at straws probably trying to find a reason why one monitors might be objectively better than the other!

Cheers,
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:01 pm

I have the same worry (on a considerably lower budget). Unlike you though (and as an amateur recordist) I don't think I have the knowledge to make an objective decision.

Why don't you list your reasons for liking each and see if other ears concur?
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:09 pm

ShahidM wrote:I have indeed tested the Neumanns and PMCs in my room... Unfortunately, there are aspects to both monitors that I like and I am finding it extremely difficult to decide which I prefer overall.

I'm surprised you're having such difficulty, but if you genuinely don't have a clear preference for one over the other, buy the cheapest!

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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ReadySaltedChris » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:56 pm

I have several chums with studios with the Neumann's. I have them myself and they are superb. I have one chum with the PMCs and one of them blew up.

This is the end of my review.
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:04 pm

Nice. Succinct. :lol:
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby John Willett » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:59 pm

ShahidM wrote:Thanks for all the replies!

I am based in London, UK.

The Studio Shop in London have the KH310 on demo and, if you give them advance notice, can also have the PMC for you to demo at the same time. :thumbup:


ShahidM wrote: I do wonder why the PMCs are dearer than the Neumanns. Is this due to their digital capabilities, brand or manufacture process? I'd be very interested to know.

Costs are normally based on the cost of raw materials, research and development costs and the actual manufacturing costs, this also takes account of the number of units made. Both manufacturers have high quality manufacture and service.


ShahidM wrote:I will run some spoken word with some voices I am very familiar with. Great suggestion thanks.

Yup - the spoken voice is at frequencies where the ear is mst sensitive and is a great test for how accurate and realistic the monitor is. If you play back a recording of someone you know well and if it really sounds like them, then it is a good monitor.
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ReadySaltedChris » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:50 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Nice. Succinct. :lol:

Actually, I bought the 310s very much based on your excellent review!
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ShahidM » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:02 pm

Hello all!

@John Willett
I actually managed to get hold of a pair of both at the same time and compared them to one another.

@Sam Spoons
I would really love to see if people agree with my observations actually so here we go!

PMC TwoTwo 6
- Great Stereo Imaging and a nice sweet spot
- Detailed and crisp sound in general with really unique highs with an upper midrange that really stands out and is generally pleasing
- Smooth bass performance - perhaps a little laggy, but I can't really tell; not sure there's much in it compared to other similar quality monitors like the KH310s.
- Bass doesn't have as much oomph or super lows (the KH310 goes lower anyway) as the KH310s, but then it seem accurate and unhyped to me generally.
- Really enjoyable to listen to and unfatiguing.
- They look great - shame you can't turn the backlight off for film work
- They are light and easy to move
- Multiple inputs is useful and DSP and adjustments easy to match compared to the dial on the Neumanns

Neumann KH310
I will mainly be comparing these to the PMCs so the comments above might just seem too general.
- These monitors have a remarkable way of separating everything in a mix. To me, it allows you to hear all sorts of madness...
- BUT, this seems to come at the expense of energy and knowing 'where' in a mix a certain element is placed. I find that the general sound is somewhat subdued and quiet to the extend that even if there was an element say a dominant snare or clap (ala Michael Jackson) or vocal element that is supposed to sound in front of the rest of the instrumentation or certain SFX in film work ahead of ambient sounds, it would sound like it was exactly the same volume as a background element. I hope that makes sense. I guess I'm saying it sounds compressed, but not in the traditional distorted sense.
- They sound slightly cleaner that the PMCs.
- Their analytical sound makes it difficult to get a 'feel' for a mix and how everything blends together.
- To me, the PMCs vocal reproduction sounds more realistic, but in comparison to the Neumanns it can sound harsh at times. Again, the 'compression' seems to be the culprit.
- Both monitors reproduce the same details, but as with most monitors they just prioritise them in different ways. The Neumann's seem to give every detail a chance to shine through even if you are not usually going to hear it and the PMCs seem to place things in more of the order you'd imagine them to be placed. I guess in summary the PMCs have more depth.
- The subdued nature of the Neumanns makes me feel like the PMCs sound close to clipping and can be sibbilant in comparison but I can't tell whether that is inherent in a mix or if the Neumanns have a strange way or quitening or supressing things to make them sound more clean. That is a mystery to me.
- The KH310 s are similarly unfatiguing.
- Might be my room, but I find that sometimes the low end can resort to sub-bass harmonics making the low end a bit meatier than perhaps it should be.
- Neumanns have a nice feature where you can turn off the logo light and they fade in and out when you turn them on.

I hope some of my ramblings makes some kind of sense to you and please feel free to tell me if I'm talking nonsense or maybe looking at something wrong.

@Hugh
It is so tempting to go with the cheaper ones, but the size, weight and looks of the PMCs are so good :)

Look forward to hearing from you all!

Thanks,
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby Studio Support Gnome » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:40 pm

based on your impressions, I would say your acoustics need looking in to....

meanwhile, I would take the KH310 every day, of every week, over anything else remotely in the price range.... you'd need to spend almost double before I'd change my choice....


(and that would be for the SP Acoustics SP25MA )
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby CSpencer » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:42 pm

I've had the Neumann KH310's for almost a year and a half and found them to be excellent. The price / performance ratio was just right for my needs.
I also have Dynaudio BM15's driven by a 450watts a side power amp and Alesis M1 Active's.
There clearly are differences in the sound between these but not nearly as much as you'd think despite the 10x price range between the Alesis and Neumanns. They are all selectable with a Mackie Big Knob so instant comparisons can be made easily.

I have a few points for you to consider.

1. To an extent you will become acclimatised with any monitors after a short time of using them. You will learn their strengths and weaknesses. Is this why so many users still like to mix on those awful sounding (old version) white coned 'HiFi' speakers. I could never understand this.

2. The PMC's may sound more exciting to you than the Neumann's but a good monitor should be accurate and neutral, it will encourage you to make your mixes more 'exciting' if that's what you're aiming for. Both monitors have basic EQ adjustments that will tailor their sound 'in the room' to what you desire. However I would not describe the Neumann's as making the dynamics or sound stage compressed as you have described but I haven't carried out a direct A/B as you have. I do find them well balanced compared to 'HiFi' speakers.

3. The last point I'd like to make is how much the effect of your room acoustics and how and where you mount them have upon the sound of your monitors. My room, despite being small is both well insulated and acoustically treated and sounds fairly well balanced. However having recently installed Sonarworks Reference 4 software and making up corrective EQ curves (for all my monitors) I am convinced that no matter how 'flat' your speaker response is, the room acoustic can make a big difference. Having the correction profiles for each set of my vastly different (by price) monitors they now sound less different than before. My Neumann's started off great but now sound a good deal more transparent in my room with the addition of software to correct EQ, L/R levels and phase. That's not a criticism of the Neumann's (or any monitors) but reveals how much affect the room has on the sound.

Hope this is helpful,
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ALLAN KING » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:13 pm

Hi mate I’ve got a pair of Neumann kh310s they actually sound amazing and very flat, Ive actually got a pair for sale on the advert section at the moment if anyone is interested only selling these amazing monitors due to moving into a smaller room. Selling a bit of a bargain too
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ShahidM » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:39 am

Thanks for all your opinions!

I am looking into acoustic treatment at the moment, but unfortunately with a very small flat I have to have them in the living room so extensive treatment is not going to be feasible.

In terms of mixing etc, it is unlikely that I will be using the monitors to mix myself (perhaps very slight adjustments to film and music work when necessary), but rather their main purpose is a playback system to give me a reliable and accurate impression of how a film mix sounds. So with regards to the monitor having a particular signature to lead mixes in a particular direction I am not so concerned if that makes sense.

I'm sure there is no such thing as a completely objectively accurate monitor because at the end of the day a speaker is reproducing a sound in a box! It can only do so much!

I am still torn between the two as I feel just have different strengths. The Neumanns are sligjtly more details but makes things sound a little artificial to my ears but then PMCs sound a little bit too smooth and details seem to get lost in there somewhere despite a great sense of depth woth regards to instrument or sfx placement.

Cheers!
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:27 pm

It sounds like you are saying the PMCs sound 'nicer', more 'impressive' or 'involving', all qualities we would be looking for in a HiFi speaker..... But, not in a monitor for mixing or evaluating a mix or track where 'detailed', 'revealing', and 'accurate' are the kind of traits required.

Also where did you compare the two? Unless the room is well treated you won't hear the benefits of high range monitors (my room is quite good now but small so I doubt extending my £1k budget still further will gain me any meaningful benefits).
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby CSpencer » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:31 pm

You are over-thinking things (been there myself). Unless you have a half decent acoustically treated room with monitor calibration you're better off saving your money and getting smaller and cheaper but still high quality monitors with less of a bass response like two-way Neumann's, Dynaudio's, Genelec's et.al. Also with an untreated room (without bass traps), then don't get a sub. Anything with a good low end response and you will have all sorts of problems in the lower end caused by standing waves in your room (and you'll also upset the neighbours). Spend some money on acoustic panels. Get some free standing ones if you don't want to fix anything to the walls. Put them behind and to the outside's of the monitors. Finally don't buy monitors because they sound nice, get ones that are revealing.
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Re: PMC TwoTwo.6 vs Neumann KH310

Postby ShahidM » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:32 am

Thanks for all the replies!

Thanks for all the advice. Sorry if I'm giving the impression that the PMCs sound 'nice', that's not the case. They just to me sound like they impart a particular 'energy' that seems built into a mix allowing you to hear the kind of vibe that the mixer was going for if that makes sense. The PMCs are definitely not HiFi or pleasing in that regard, they are just less 'dry'. Accuracy is very hard to define and assess. I did mention that despite their detailed outlook the Neumann's do make vocals sound somewhat artificial at times. I think a lot of our assessments about monitors are also how we feel that things should sound so objectivity is near impossible.

I have been testing all monitors in the same environment.

To give context, in my room, the Focal Trios were too much (although I found them to sound quite hifi and dark). They certainly didn't work for my room and just think I wasn't so keen on the ribbon tweeter. PMC TB2s were ok. JBL 7 series were good. A little harsh and forward, but very powerful and detailed. Amphion One15s were quite good, but for me sounded like where was a gap in the low-mid, stripping vocals of any body. PMC Result were nice and neutral sounding - possibly moreso than the TwoTwos - somewhere in between the Neumanns and PMCs. Hopefully getting some PSIs this week to try. I shan't bore you with my findings, but just for me the PMCs and Neumanns sounded the 'best' in my room.

Would love some affordable <£100 acoustic panel recommendations.

Thanks!
S
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