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Getting an analogue mixer set to track new tracks over(or with) pre-recorded trs., -clean;

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Getting an analogue mixer set to track new tracks over(or with) pre-recorded trs., -clean;

Postby Tunewolf » Wed May 23, 2018 9:47 pm

Beginner's Problems;
-Getting analogue mixer set to track a new track along with pre-recorded tracks,-clean;

I bought an Allen & Heath ZED-22 FX analogue mixer, and have since tracked everything by way of the "Minimal Signal Path" approach. -So far I've only been recording my own material, -on my own.

-However I'm getting to projects soon that will involve other artists, multiple musicians recording and playing to tracks already recorded.

Everything I've known & read -in the users manual & elsewhere indicates that with the Zed-22 FX this matter involves tracking re the Auxes, (on A & H Zed 22-FX ;)

This mixer's manual cites that it is the Auxes, (Auxes #1 + #2 in the ZED-22 FX case) -that are to be used as feeds for recording or for "Foldback Monitoring".

-However I have tried the Auxes and what I thought to be every combination of the various switches on the mixer -and can't seem to get a situation where I can use a previously recorded vocal track as a guide track, (that is unusable otherwise itself because of guitar bleed in) and track another vocal without also recording the previous vocal track).

I know that this is a very common practice and that audio engineers often have a different mix for the artist to hear while they're recording, (often with a bit of reverb on their own voice and certain other tracks brought up that will help them in their new track performance), and another dry mix more balanced overall for their own monitoring as tracking engineer.

I bought a fairly good pair of Sony closed-back headphones for that expressed purpose, -so that musicians could hear the music on previously recorded tracks that they will be playing to -without any of the sound of the other previously recorded tracks bleeding into their new track from the headphones.

As this is something that I will have to know how to do I thought that I would get into this now whilst I'm still just recording alone, (and only wasting my own time).

I have to believe that this procedure must be simple enough, -I must of overlooked something ?

-Just to clarify, -in this world of DAW recording that we're now living in, -I'm not using the ZED-22 FX's USB stereo recording facility, -I'm "out of the Box", -going from the Allen & Heath ZED-22 FX,s analogue console -into a Radar 24.

As I am also concerned with being as non noise-compromised as possible, -I tend to record "minimal signal path" from the very quiet Grace Design 101 pre -into my Radar 24. (-Someday I intend to get a much better, quieter, and more appropriate studio mixer.)

But as I am soon to be recording with other people & ensembles, I need to be able to track over tracks -without recording previously recorded tracks recorded as well onto the new track.

-For multiple musician multi-track recording I have 16 Hosa Docs jumpered insert cables to get around the fact that this ZED-22 FX is a performance mixer. -This will make the mixer much quieter, (as long as I don't pick up any radio signal interference or noise from the unbalanced system -which much depends upon the room location.)

I don't have a headphone amp. It will be a while before I can afford more gear.

The ZED-22 FX has only 3 Auxes, -Aux #1 & #2 are pre and Aux #3 is post.

Right at the moment I'm not dealing with a stereo issue, -I have one vocal track that has guitar-bleed-in that I want to replace with one new vocal track, -using it for a guide track. I tried many things with the Auxes #1 and/or #2 , (pre & post), and the Auxes buttons & switches etc. but still couldn't record without picking up my guide track as well. -I know that there is some simple way to do this.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Cheers,
Tunewolf
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Re: Getting an analogue mixer set to track new tracks over(or with) pre-recorded trs., -clean;

Postby James Perrett » Thu May 24, 2018 1:04 am

I'm a bit confused by your post so can you just list your signal chain? Are you connecting the insert send of each channel to the equivalent input on the Radar and then playing back/monitoring via the insert return on the same channel?

Are you using the Radar as a dumb multitrack or is there any routing going on in the Radar? Does the Radar automatically switch between input and playback when you start recording on a track?
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Re: Getting an analogue mixer set to track new tracks over(or with) pre-recorded trs., -clean;

Postby Frank Rideau » Mon May 28, 2018 6:26 pm

-However I have tried the Auxes and what I thought to be every combination of the various switches on the mixer -and can't seem to get a situation where I can use a previously recorded vocal track as a guide track, (that is unusable otherwise itself because of guitar bleed in) and track another vocal without also recording the previous vocal track).

Your message was rather laborious to read but you do not necessarily explains how you used the routing and auxes and what output of the ZED 22 you are feeding the Radar 24 with.
Should you not just send the new track you want to record to an aux and aux out to your recorder? Then, all pre-recorded and new tracks to master out/phones for monitoring?
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Re: Getting an analogue mixer set to track new tracks over(or with) pre-recorded trs., -clean;

Postby Tunewolf » Tue May 29, 2018 9:58 pm

Each Radar 24 nyquest convertor provides 8 tracks -and each has a DB-25 OUT and IN in the back of the machine. I have Planet Waves Modular System cables with TRS 8 fans coming out of two of these DB-25 OUTs. -They feed the 16 Line IN PUTS on the Allen & Heath ZED-22 FX.

Also there is a Planet Wave Modular Systems cables going into one of the DB-25 INs, in the back of the Radar. Only two of these 8 fan TRS plugs are connected to the MAINS.

Which ever of these 8 fan TRS plugs that are coming out of the MAINS & into the Radar are the only tracks that I can record on or record mix downs on-to, (when so designated on the Radar. -Should I need to record on to another track I would need to change the TRS plugs on the 8 fan that's going out of the MAINS & into the back of the Radar 24.

Although there are ways to mute tracks with the Radar, but for reasons of work-flow I tend to record & edit etc. using the mixer to control the sound of the various tracks.

Using one of the AUXES inserts to send my newly recorded track back to the recorder sounds like it may be a solution.

However I have in the past managed to do this elementary function, (though just how escapes me now) -and I seem to recall making it work with the MAINS.

It must be something embarrassingly obvious & simple.
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Re: Getting an analogue mixer set to track new tracks over(or with) pre-recorded trs., -clean;

Postby James Perrett » Wed May 30, 2018 1:43 am

If you used the mains previously you must have been monitoring from a different output (it looks like you may be able to select different sources on the headphone output). It looks like using either the auxes or the insert outputs is the only way to get an alternative line level output from the desk. Using the inserts would require different cables though.
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