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New Mixer Need Advice

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New Mixer Need Advice

Postby Crowmig » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:41 pm

Hi all, if you could give me some advice I’d really appreciate it. I’ve had a life long dream of making music, I’m a 20 year old male who’s played guitar for 6 years and just recently discovered DAWs like Ableton and I’m in LOVE with producing. I’m also very sad to say earlier this year I discovered I couldn’t hear above 15Khz in my right and 16khz in my left. (Yes I’ve been to my audiologist and had 8-20Khz tested and she said I have some slight hearing loss in those frequencies but it’s normal and I shouldn’t worry. Won’t affecr daily life at all) my hearing in 250hz-8khz is “untouched” and “shockingly good” apparently I was hearing into -10db. Why I can’t hear above 16khz? Your guess is as good as mine. I’ve greived a lot over this because I fear it will affect my studio work. It doesn’t affect my music at all, and I like to think I hear pretty damn well. Way better than my friends and I know they can hear up to at least 17khz so I don’t get it. But yet I have to yell at them for having their music too loud and they always argue that it’s not. So now to the point,
Any other producers who can’t hear above 16khz? How does it affect your work? I love music and want to pursue a life long career in it, but should I give up? This makes me so sad, even though I don’t even notice it. Afraid others will. I feel I’ve ruined my life, should I push forward and keep making music?
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Re: New Mixer Need Advice

Postby James Perrett » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:24 pm

In the 80's there must have been an awful lot of engineers who couldn't hear 15kHz given the number of records featuring the line scan whine from video monitors. Mixing is rarely about these frequency extremes anyway - most of the important stuff happens at much lower frequencies than that.

While I could hear past 19kHz in my teens, my hearing now drops off at about 11.5kHz in my mid 50's.
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Re: New Mixer Need Advice

Postby Crowmig » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:31 pm

Thank you!!
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Re: New Mixer Need Advice

Postby Crowmig » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:33 pm

Do you still feel you can make good mixes? Does it affect your mixing at all not hearing above that?
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Re: New Mixer Need Advice

Postby James Perrett » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:22 pm

As I mentioned in my previous post, most of the important decisions in mixing concern much lower frequencies and many commercial mixes keep the extreme high and low end well controlled so that all the action happens in the midrange. While I notice that I no longer hear the 15kHz whine that I mentioned above, I don't feel that my ability to hear into a mix has diminished. For some restoration jobs I will use a spectrum analyser or a spectral view of the file in order to make sure I'm not missing anything but that's about the only adjustment I've made so far.
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Re: New Mixer Need Advice

Postby Crowmig » Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:21 am

You make a good point about that! Sgt. peppers comes to mind. Pretty sure Paul said he couldn’t hear that. Thank you for the reply! Some places on these forums they’ll shame you if you can’t hear 40Khz (jk)
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Re: New Mixer Need Advice

Postby resistorman » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:49 am

I'm dropping off at 14k these days and my right ear is decidedly different than the left. I used to be able to hear a TV CRT scanning in the house next door. If I were to be honest, a lot of my hearing loss probably happened throughout my career, because I was still playing rockin blues live. However, I'm still making mixes people like. And there's always spectrum analysis to give you a reality check. It's true I'm at the end of my career, but I feel the bigger problem with the age thing is endurance, I just can't work as many hours without perceptual fatigue. I believe it's because all your muscles lose flexibility... if it takes me half a second to focus my eyes from keyboard to screen, longer to get the old limbs powered up in the morning, why not all the working parts of the ear? I would bet your endurance is just fine.

But here's the thing... mixing isn't all about frequency response, it's about paying attention. Being able to isolate different parts and then zooming back out to hear the whole. I still hear stuff other people don't all the time and it astonishes them, but it's not hearing sensitivity, it's my engineer mind continuously sorting and analyzing the audiosphere. The most critical stuff is happening in the midrange where everything tends to gather and human hearing is the most sensitive. That's where the rubber meets the road. And bass these days... absolutely critical, crowded, and difficult to get right if you're doing anything pop. The ultra highs are important, but just don't over compensate and you'll be fine.

So if you want the blessings of an old engineer, you have it. Make great music and don't sweat that you aren't perfect, no one else is, and that doesn't stop them.
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Re: New Mixer Need Advice

Postby Bob Bickerton » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:02 am

I can only imagine what 16kHz sounds like!

With age your ability to hear higher frequencies will reduce, and whilst you can take steps to slow down the process, by protecting your ears from extremes, it is inevitable.

My hearing gets compromised around 10 to 12kHz these days. For critical work I'll use a meter to identify anything I missed (I recently had a rogue 13kHz spike on a project).

So look after your ears and make great music.

The phrase 'Having Golden Ears' relates more to the listener's ability to be critically discerning in terms of a mix rather than the frequency range of their hearing!

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Re: New Mixer Need Advice

Postby Bob Bickerton » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:03 am

Crowmig wrote: Some places on these forums they’ll shame you if you can’t hear 40Khz (jk)

I'd imagine that's another forum you're talking about..... around here we're realistic about producing good music.....

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Re: New Mixer Need Advice

Postby ef37a » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:07 am

Oh! *&^%!

I thought the question was about advice on buying a MIXER!

Anyway, limit at 15kHz? When I was 17 or so (56yrs ago) my hearing topped out at 17kHz using a workshop Heathkit oscillator, not medically valid at all! The 10.125kHz 405 line whistle was a pain, 15,625 not SO bad but I had a lot of lady customers who could hear it from high powered inductors in colour TVs especially when they went to sub 3mm plastic cabinets. By the time I was 30 I could not hear 15k even with Mk! lug in the cab!

FM radio has always cut off at 15kHz (as did analogue CTV). Did you ever feel there was something missing? Decca "ffss" only went to 18kHz. Then, it is a bloody good cassette recorder that does much above 12kHz. Ok, yes. High energy tapes and PERFECT bias and Dolby setup will approach 20kHz but how many machines were setup that well? In any case peeps used to just slam in whatever tape was handy (aka cheapest) . I doubt high speed pre-recoded dupes had a lot past 12kHz on them?

All the above waffle is to tell you not to worry. We spec' stuff "20 to 20" because we CAN! I hope you are not going to worry that your room/speakers will never get down to 20Hz either? In fact you will be lucky to get 40!

Just "do it" friend.

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Re: New Mixer Need Advice

Postby garrettendi » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:11 am

Mate I'm known on these forums for being totally Deaf and only hearing at all thanks to a Cochlear Implant.

Yes it's a challenge for people with hearing loss to make music, but it is possible. You may need a hand now and again but there's no shame in that.

If anyone tells you can't make music because of hearing loss, then I say **** 'em.
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Re: New Mixer Need Advice

Postby ef37a » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:18 am

And! I caught a snatch of Evelyn Glenny on the radio yesterday (must track it down). SHE does ok!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bgwg ... ts/2018/08

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Re: New Mixer Need Advice

Postby Crowmig » Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:29 pm

Wow! Thank you all for these amazing replies! and yes I did say mixer lol but I meant me! My bad! You guys have really cheered me up and given me the kick I needed. I’m about to go mix a track right now! :bouncy:
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Re: New Mixer Need Advice

Postby Crowmig » Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:32 pm

Bob Bickerton wrote:I can only imagine what 16kHz sounds like!

With age your ability to hear higher frequencies will reduce, and whilst you can take steps to slow down the process, by protecting your ears from extremes, it is inevitable.

My hearing gets compromised around 10 to 12kHz these days. For critical work I'll use a meter to identify anything I missed (I recently had a rogue 13kHz spike on a project).

So look after your ears and make great music.

The phrase 'Having Golden Ears' relates more to the listener's ability to be critically discerning in terms of a mix rather than the frequency range of their hearing!

Bob
you’re totally right, didn’t even think about it that way. Someone just told me “what you lose in hearing, you gain in listening” :lol: Needles to say I will still protect what I have with my life!
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Re: New Mixer Need Advice

Postby Crowmig » Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:35 pm

garrettendi wrote:Mate I'm known on these forums for being totally Deaf and only hearing at all thanks to a Cochlear Implant.

Yes it's a challenge for people with hearing loss to make music, but it is possible. You may need a hand now and again but there's no shame in that.

If anyone tells you can't make music because of hearing loss, then I say **** 'em.
One of the best replies! Very inspiring! Much thanks!
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Re: New Mixer Need Advice

Postby My Own Silence » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:29 pm

The mids are the most important part. The low end (is below about 80hz) and the top end (is about 10-12k maybe lower) is where most speakers sound very different. I would say it's more important to understand the relationships in between these frequencies. However also to me it's important to get dynamics. The push and pull of a sound. A punch snare sound can almost give the impression of more top end due to the attacky nature.

More of an issue can be when you have problems with hearing the mids, but I know most engineers just have to learn their ears. This will sometimes be a blessing rather than a curse - maybe what you hear is just right for a great mix!
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Re: New Mixer Need Advice

Postby CS70 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:12 am

resistorman wrote:But here's the thing... mixing isn't all about frequency response, it's about paying attention.

This one!

So long you can hear people speaking, there's zero probs in mixing anything - the midrange is where lots of the interest lies.

But the movement and internal orchestration of the track is what really makes a difference and that's got nothing to do with hearing.
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Re: New Mixer Need Advice

Postby Argiletonne » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:38 pm

That seems odd to me that you say you cannot hear. Hearing is defined by many varieties of audible sound. I'm not trying to bloke you and promote myself here, only a test for sure,.

here is a link to a song I did specifically using high frequency around 19khz: https://claytonlevibrown.bandcamp.com/t ... rgiletonne

You only have to listen for a few moments to realize whether you can hear the high frequencies or not.

This should tell you the truth because audiologists are not giving you sounds that you would hear only playing -30db single sine waves which are practically impossible to hear. If you cannot hear the test sine waves that does not mean you cannot hear.

Can you hear the 19khz sound in this song?
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Re: New Mixer Need Advice

Postby ef37a » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:17 am

I doubt many adult males can hear 19kHz? At least not at the levels that they occur in "normal" music.

And "level", notably RELATIVE level is the key here. Of course, audiology tests are done at low levels, that is the idea! to find out how a person's hearing compares with that of normal acuity. THE most common form of deafness is the progressive loss of high frequencies.

When I was tested some 5 years ago I was 20dB or so down (ref 1khZ note!) at 2kHz. I dare say I am even worse now. Most of the last octave of the piano is just a "clunk" and the upper reaches of the violin complete silence.

'S all Einstein.

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