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lexicon reverb comparison

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lexicon reverb comparison

Postby mountain lion » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:02 am

hi

so will there be any big difference in quality between the native pcm lexicon bundle and the new uad 480l plug in?

is it worth it?
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Re: lexicon reverb comparison

Postby Kevin Nolan » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:19 am

If you already own the UA hardware it may be worth it; but there are alternatives otherwise - I believe the PCM90 / 91 use the reverb algorithms as the 480L and you can buy those for quite competitive 2nd hand prices these days.

The NI RC48 is also very nice, at a fraction of the cost.
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Re: lexicon reverb comparison

Postby desmond » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:53 am

Kevin Nolan wrote:If you already own the UA hardware it may be worth it; but there are alternatives otherwise - I believe the PCM90 / 91 use the reverb algorithms as the 480L and you can buy those for quite competitive 2nd hand prices these days.

I'm pretty sure the PCM 9x algorithms are new, and not based on the 480L at all. Over on GS, the developer (Michael Carnes) of most of the PCM algorithms went into quite some significant detail about the algos on the various generations of Lexicon hardware, if you want to dig out the posts.

Kevin Nolan wrote:The NI RC48 is also very nice, at a fraction of the cost.

I didn't really like the NI plugins, either the 224-derived one, or the 480L-derived one. Difficult to say why, I just didn't find them very satisfying and a bit "dead" sounding.

I did really like the UAD 224, but haven't tried the 480 yet. I do like the Lexicon PCM plugins quite a bit, but again haven't done any detailed comparison (which should be easy enough to do as all these things are demo-able). I think I tried the Relab 480 some time ago, and thought it was nice, but not enough to make me want to use it in place of some of my other tools.

And of course, I've got a bunch of impulses from many of those machines I can also use, so I'm pretty good for reverbs in general, along with some character verbs like the UAD EMT140 and SoundToys LittlePlate, the Valhalla stuff, and more besides...

The UAD 480 is supposed to be quite resource heavy, which is another thing to bear in mind...
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Re: lexicon reverb comparison

Postby desmond » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:45 am

Was just having a nose around GS on the Lexi reverbs - the situation is complex, as algorithms changed and morphed between hardware, and changed to suit the various different target chips they were running on, and the hardware affected the resultant sound, and marketing/features also come into play (eg, simpler algorithms running on less powerful chips and so on.)

Some of the PCM algorithms were derived from 480 algos, but none of them are the same algos, from what Michael says, eg lots of stuff like this:

The PCM90/91 Random Hall came from the 300 Random Hall, which is very, very close to the 480l. The PCM90/91 has a 20-bit memory as opposed to the 18-bit memory in the 480l. It also has an extra bit in its coefficient architecture. These result in a slightly cleaner sound in the PCM version.

The PCM's in general are cleaner than the earlier hardware units, but often that dirtier, noiser reverb is part of their charm - particularly so for the 224.

The 480l is a creature of its age. In terms of bit depth, CPU speed, audio quality or any other measurement, it is orders of magnitude behind what's available now. In spite of that, many people like it specifically because of the many artifacts, and perhaps because of their long experience with it. If someone is happily mixing with a 480l, the last thing I would do is to try to talk them out of it. I do appreciate some aspects of that character, and have brought them forward. I've been less interested in re-introducing quantization error and coefficient zippering.
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Re: lexicon reverb comparison

Postby Kevin Nolan » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:59 am

Very interesting details Desmond. I been using an LXP15 for years, and absolutely love it. I do actually like the RC48 a lot - it really sounds very 'Lexicon' to my ears, and I have used it to great effect in some theatre work recently, and held its own really well.

I've actually recently bought a both a 2nd hand PCM91 and a new tc electronics Reverb4000 for my new project studio. I haven't powered on either yet, but am really looking forward to trying them both out. Hugh Robjohns offered some valued advice here some months ago, pointing out the pedigree of the PCM91 - so I just couldn't resist given the lean prices of late. I got my excellent condition PCM91 for just 500 Euro - and I saw some on Reverb.com for not far off that over the past year, but they seem to be climbing in price again - typically up at 800 - 900 Euro. The many 480's on Reverb.com are certainly holding their price from 3000 Euro upwards.

I have to say I just adore all Lexicon reverbs -and indeed the NI emulations. So to the original poster - give that this is an licensed Lexicon plugin that UA have released, and given their attention to detail, I'd say this plugin is going to be absolutely top notch. If I used UA hardware I'd be buying it (addicted to reverbs :-) ) (I just wish UA would release AU plugins too!)
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Re: lexicon reverb comparison

Postby Wonks » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:17 am

desmond wrote:The UAD 480 is supposed to be quite resource heavy, which is another thing to bear in mind...
UAD state that a mono instance of the 480L takes 60.6% of one SHARC processor, and 61.3% of one for a stereo instance. That's at 44.1kHz, and the percentage may be greater at higher sampling rates.
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