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Lower digital audio levels from Adobe Premiere vs Logic bounces...Can anybody advise...?

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Lower digital audio levels from Adobe Premiere vs Logic bounces...Can anybody advise...?

Postby skipper01 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:48 am

Hi, just wondered if anybody could advise as Im a little confused at present....
i'm looking to upload a video to YouTube that will ultimately be linked to my website - its essentially a montage/promotion video of me performing singing/playing in a bar.
Its my first go at some video editing using Adobe premiere.
I've done the audio work in Logic and am happy with bounced levels that are mastered and reach -0.1dbFS in places.
I've synced the audio with the video and camera audio and rendered the video using a YouTube preset in Premiere (H264, 1920x1080, AAC audio, 320kbps, 48khz)
I also took careful attention of the audio meters in Premiere and checked consistency of levels going through both the audio clip mixer and audio track mixer.
I looked at the final MP4 render and thought it sounded quieter than just audio bounces so I took the mp4 into Logic to look at the audio levels after extraction.
The levels were lower and required 6db of Gain (activated in the region parameter box in Logic) to bring the highest point back to -0.1dbFS without clipping.
I did a test back in Premiere of putting all the audio tracks through a Submix fader that allowed me to increase 6db of gain.
However, then the audio meters in Premiere were regularly clipping although I couldn't hear any distortion or artefacts.
I rendered this mp4 and took it into Logic to extract the audio on this new one and the levels were obviously 6db higher. I couldn't see or hear any clipping or hear any distortion or artefacts.
Therefore, am I missing something because surely i shouldn't need to push Premiere into apparent clipping to achieve just shy of 0dFS after rendering? Is Premiere's audio calibrated differently or could it be something to do with the render process?
Just wondered if anybody had any thoughts?
Ultimately I'm a little worried about having slightly quieter video content against the mastered mp3 audio examples i have on the site. Its enough to be a problem imho.
I also tried downloading and extracting some example audio from Youtube and that was reaching 0dbFS in Logic when looking at this audio from the converted mp4 so i dont believe its a Youtube level thing....

Thanks in advance for any thoughts....
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Re: Lower digital audio levels from Adobe Premiere vs Logic bounces...Can anybody advise...?

Postby desmond » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:13 am

I expect you'll want to be looking at Premiere's audio preferences & mixer to see where it might be applying gain reduction, as it is Premiere that's doing the final mix/render from all your source media.
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Re: Lower digital audio levels from Adobe Premiere vs Logic bounces...Can anybody advise...?

Postby skipper01 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:47 am

Its something to do with using the surround sound audio from the cameras in Premiere even though I'm only rendering the audio as stereo.
I've done a test with just a piece of stereo audio and some footage and when rendered the levels marry up with ie the levels in Logic.
When using any surround sound (and the master output in Premiere shows its in surround) there is the level disparity.
Im trying to figure out a way around this other than deleting all the surround audio that regrettably I was hoping to use to fix a problem where the camera audio would be useful in the mix for a bit....
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Re: Lower digital audio levels from Adobe Premiere vs Logic bounces...Can anybody advise...?

Postby James Perrett » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:15 pm

Could you mix the camera audio with the other audio in Logic and then export the whole mix in stereo to Premier?
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Re: Lower digital audio levels from Adobe Premiere vs Logic bounces...Can anybody advise...?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:07 pm

There are so many possibilities here that it would take an entire day to write about them all.

However, as you mention surround sound sources, I'd check out the default stereo down-mix options in the surround encoder's metadata settings.

More importantly, though, you may well be wasting your time and worrying about irrelevancies! YouTube operates as a loudness-normalised platform, so trying to make your mixes as loud as possible will be fruitless, and your peak-normalised mix will almost certainly be turned down anyway to comply with YouTube's target loudness value (around -16LUFS I believe).

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Re: Lower digital audio levels from Adobe Premiere vs Logic bounces...Can anybody advise...?

Postby blinddrew » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:12 pm

Slight correction, i think Youtube is about -14LUFS according to Ian Sheppard (iirc), and that fits with my numbers on there.
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Re: Lower digital audio levels from Adobe Premiere vs Logic bounces...Can anybody advise...?

Postby skipper01 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:24 pm

Cheers for the replies and help.
All points taken on board regarding the levels and relating to what happens when uploaded to YouTube.
That aside I found the problem and solution in the end.
If you create a new sequence in premiere and make sure the master fader is stereo in the sequence setup so any camera audio that is surround sound will be placed in stereo. I just copied the content from the other sequence as I couldn’t change the master fader from being surround in the first sequence.
The rendered audio in the new sequence with the stereo master fader is the same as ie Logic levels without his apparent 6db or so drop.
Anyways, thanks again and apologies this was all a bit open ended.
It was my first go with premiere and still learning.
Good fun none the less!
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Re: Lower digital audio levels from Adobe Premiere vs Logic bounces...Can anybody advise...?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:39 pm

Thanks Blindrew -- I knew it was in that ballpark but I couldn't remember the right figure and I'm wasn't near my references to check. Turns out it was Apple's Soundcheck that is -16LUFS. YT is currently about -13LUFS, and Tidal/Spotify about -14LUFS.

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