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Second set of monitors, which ones?

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Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:02 pm
by R_A
Maybe think about adding one of the smaller ATC models to your demo list.

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:09 pm
by Martin Walker
R_A wrote:Maybe think about adding one of the smaller ATC models to your demo list.

Very revealing, particularly across the midrange, but bass extension might be an issue for house/techno music, as while they do go very low, the bottom end does start rolling off higher than some.

I love mine, but have them placed close to the front wall to benefit from the room mode low boost ;)


Martin

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:48 pm
by akaspeedy
Looked at several atc and nothing in the 3k price range extends low enough so Ive not added them to my shortlist. Anyone know which U.K. companies offer try before you buy....??

Aka Bob

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:03 pm
by Luke W
Give KMR a try, they were really helpful when I bought my monitors not long back. I did go there for a demo, but they may be willing to help.

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:28 pm
by John Willett
Luke W wrote:Give KMR a try, they were really helpful when I bought my monitors not long back. I did go there for a demo, but they may be willing to help.

KMR definitely do demos and home demos - and most of the major distributors have loan demo modeld they can loan customers / dealers. :thumbup:

The Studio Shop also do this (but have a smaller range). :thumbup:

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:58 pm
by javahut
Got the HEDD Type 20a couple months ago. They are awesome, and work for multiple styles of music and applications.

They're great for electronic... enough low end to detail it in your mixes, along with distortion free mids and high end clarity. And the 20 work equally well for jazz and acoustic music, as they have the mid and high end detail, but will not over emphasize the lows. If the lows are light in the mix, the Type 20 lets you know exactly what's there and what isn't.

They also have plenty of power and headroom for clean dynamic range, and to play back with volume if you need it. They're also a pleasure and quite fun for listening. Easy to discern differences in mixes and mastering.

I would bet the HEDD Type 20 are very close to what you're looking for and you'd be very happy with them.

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:45 pm
by akaspeedy
Pretty sure I’m gonna go with the 3 way hedds then.....great reviews, plus ribbon tweeter.....has power and amazing low end.......looking at my list I’m struggling to see any competitors now....the kh310 look great, sealed cabinets as well, but are a little dated now....and the rest are 2 way which I already have a pair (sonodynes sm100ak)

Aka Bob

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:16 pm
by James Perrett
akaspeedy wrote:the kh310 look great, sealed cabinets as well, but are a little dated now....

Good monitor designs don't date that quickly. I'm happily using 40 year old monitors. Newer designs than mine may not need to be as big to give the same bass response and they may be able to handle more power but I wouldn't rule out a monitor based on age. It would be worth listening to a few on your shortlist before making a final decision.

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:39 am
by Jack Ruston
Makes sense. I'm a 40+ design, and while I'm a little dated, and lack modern bells and whistles, I like to think I can still deliver.

J

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:29 am
by Hrodulf
First of all, I don't see much sense in keeping two monitors with such great overlap in utility. One is an upper entry-level near field, whilst the other is high-ish-end small near/mid-field.

Chances are the HEDD Type 20 will completely eclipse your Sonodyne as it should do everything better. Who cares if it's a 3-way, provided the drivers are integrated properly, the summing should be seamless at pretty much all frequencies and practical listening distances.

And what do you consider outdated in the KH310 design? It's the only sanely priced (sorry, ATC) sealed 3-way with a dome midrange driver.

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:33 am
by Hugh Robjohns
akaspeedy wrote:...the kh310 look great, sealed cabinets as well, but are a little dated now....

I'm sure you'll be very happy with the Hedds -- and I suspect you were always going to buy those anyway -- but I have to pull you up on the 'dated' comment. Good engineering doesn't date!

Yes, the KH310 has been around for a little while, and was itself an evolution of the hugely successful KH300 which was around for quite a while before that. But the point is that when a design is very well engineered and gets the job done reliably it becomes highly regarded and tends to stay in production for a long time. The old adage of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' applies.

Similarly, the ATC SCM100A has been in production since the 80s with only small engineering tweaks along the way, and is still rated as one of the best three-way monitors of its size on the planet.... I don't hear of top studios saying 'no thanks, it's a little dated!' Demand is as strong as ever.

Sure, the KH310 doesn't have a linearising plug-in option, or DSP fudgery... it's just properly engineered in the traditional analogue way, as it's amazingly detailed published specifications make very clear. In contrast, it's interesting to note how much technical detail is missing from the Hedd specs... food for thought! That's not to say that the Hedd is not a great speaker, of course -- Phil Ward was very thorough and complementary about it, and I trust his reviews completely -- just that the two companies have very different approaches.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/hedd-type-20
Frustratingly, there is a lot of 'fashion' in monitor speakers -- a popularity contest to always have 'the latest thing' driven by shouty 'reviews' on GS that always claim the new speaker is AWESOME. But so many of those 'popular' speakers with rave reviews actually don't last the course and disappear from the industry quickly, only to be replaced by the next new latest AWESOME miracle speaker.... Go figure.

H

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:11 pm
by Mike Stranks
Hugh Robjohns wrote: Good engineering doesn't date!

H

Indeed! Witness the fact how long some of Sennheiser's and Beyer's microphones have been in production.

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:11 pm
by Hrodulf
I think the hard truth many of the brand crusaders on forums don't want to understand is that nowadays there are VERY few truly bad monitors. It's hard to find even the mediocre ones if you stick to popular brands.

Too bad that headphones are not near as mature of a product.

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:33 pm
by Martin Walker
Hrodulf wrote:I think the hard truth many of the brand crusaders on forums don't want to understand is that nowadays there are VERY few truly bad monitors. It's hard to find even the mediocre ones if you stick to popular brands.

Too bad that headphones are not near as mature of a product.

Not too bad for you though Hrodulf ;)

And long may your success last! :clap:


Martin

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:13 pm
by hz37
I mix in a lot of different studio's, and one always develops a certain fondness for speakers. I would definitely listen to Neumann speakers within your price range. PMC and PSI speakers also come to mind. These three brands of monitors are (in my probably very biased opinion) also more forgiving sounding than your garden variety Genelec, Yamaha or similar speakers.

Have fun!

Hens Zimmerman

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:41 am
by Gone To Lunch
Hugh Robjohns wrote:
(re:getting another pair of monitors)

However, if you're working in a spare room or garage etc and these new speakers are going to sit alongside similar 'main monitors', you'd be wasting your money... and probably degrade the monitoring quality of your mains boxes in the process!

H

I am surprised by this.

Hugh are you saying that a second adjacent pair of speakers will degrade the signals of the other speakers ?

How does it happen ?

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:29 pm
by Hugh Robjohns
Gone To Lunch wrote:Hugh are you saying that a second adjacent pair of speakers will degrade the signals of the other speakers ?

Yes, potentially.

Most people place their 'second' monitors right next to their 'main' monitors, but that then effectively extends the baffle widths of both, completely messing up the stereo imaging and, possibly even altering the spectral balance in an unhelpful way. It's just not a good idea -- especially if you're splashing out a grand or two to benefit from properly designed monitors in the first place. Kind of defeats the whole object... in much the same way as partnering high-quality monitors with a cheapo subwoofer (that dumps harmonic distortion products all across the clean main monitors' midrange!)!

The other issue is that the outside pair of monitors will be more widely spaced, and thus the stereo image will be 'grander' and more impressive, but also potentially misleading. I remember some speaker comparison tests I was involved with at the Beeb years back, and whichever monitors were placed on the outside always won out in the user preferences data!

There's also a school of thought that argues that the presence of (particularly unpowered) secondary speakers in the room tend to resonate and react, which could also have an audibly counterproductive effect.

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:50 pm
by Martin Walker
I suspect Hugh is referring to acoustic reflections - so any of us have problems with large monitor screens interfering with the audio from our loudspeakers (it's difficult to get them both within visual range yet 'behind' the monitors).

In a similar way, if you place a second set of loudspeakers alongside the first you'll probably undo all the clever rounded edge techniques that the monitor manufacturers use to avoid hard reflections off their cabinets, and generate a set of unwanted early reflections that interfere with the clarity of your stereo image.

EDIT: Hugh can obviously type faster than me, although I'm encouraged that I did correctly surmise his concerns ;)


Martin

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:50 pm
by Hugh Robjohns
Martin Walker wrote:I suspect Hugh is referring to acoustic reflections...

Yep, but not just reflections; when sound waves spread across a flat surface (like an adjacent speaker baffle or computer screen) and reaches its edges the sound waves then re-radiate in new directions due to refraction/diffraction. In effect, these edges then behave as new sound radiating sources, and the sound energy from these interferes with that of the real drivers to create all manner of unwanted problems.

This is indeed the reason why most modern monitor speakers have rounded edges, specifically to minimise this effect.

H

Re: Second set of monitors, which ones?

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:17 pm
by akaspeedy
Both sets will be at different heights with the sonodynes moving slightly further to the sides and a about 8-10 inches closer and lower, whilst the new monitors will be sat on the desk....I have the glorious workbench and the tv which I use for my main laptop monitor is too big to have them side by side!

Akaspeedy