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Avantone MixCube - which is preferable, Mono (1 cube) or Stereo (a pair)?

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Re: Avantone MixCube - which is preferable, Mono (1 cube) or Stereo (a pair)?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:20 pm
by ManFromGlass
I met a woman last week who only went out with bass players and I think she married one or two. You are lucky she wasn’t in the car with you! :D

Re: Avantone MixCube - which is preferable, Mono (1 cube) or Stereo (a pair)?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:49 pm
by Dr Huge Longjohns
Just to buck the trend, I use two Mixcubes and can't imagine doing a mix without them now. My mix process goes something like this. Basic rough balance, fx, pan and eq etc on main monitors. Down to mono on Mixcubes for detailed eq and balance. Then Mixcubes in stereo for panning and tweaks. Then main monitors again, sometimes in mono too first. It's impossible to judge bass properly on Mixcubes so I inevitable have to tweak this on the mains. Then I check the mix or master on headphones (with Sonarworks) and finally a little Canford mono speaker (recommended by M Senior) set off to the side of my mix position.

Re: Avantone MixCube - which is preferable, Mono (1 cube) or Stereo (a pair)?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:31 pm
by The Elf
CS70 wrote:Well keep in mind you don’t mix for the phone, just so that it sounds good there as well.
THIS!!! :headbang:

Re: Avantone MixCube - which is preferable, Mono (1 cube) or Stereo (a pair)?

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:01 am
by Jack Ruston
So yes, there's some merit to the idea of a small, single-coned speaker, that allows you to focus on the midrange. A mono Avantone is never useless. Two placed together, like a boom box isn't a bad idea either. Two spaced wide might be missing the point a little.

One of the things people consider when they reference these speakers, is what the mix will sound like on a small domestic playback system...a radio, TV, boom box etc. What happens when we lose our bass and airy treble? BUT that situation has changed. Most domestic playback (that isn't headphones) now involves things like Sonos speakers, docks, modern tvs, zeppelins etc. And those systems all have a load of top end, and some 'impressive' bass enhancement. A Sonos play5 has frankly stunning levels of apparent low end. And so the challenge now is to judge your lows such that you're not freaking these hyped systems out, and causing excessive vibration. It's not that the midrange doesn't matter now...it matters just as much...it's that we have this new factor to contend with in terms of domestic playback. I say new, but it's like a version of an old hifi system, with the loudness buttons on, and the megabass, but with added drugs.

J

Re: Avantone MixCube - which is preferable, Mono (1 cube) or Stereo (a pair)?

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:18 pm
by w oxo cube
So are you thinking that on the whole mixes should be holding back on the low end a little more?

Re: Avantone MixCube - which is preferable, Mono (1 cube) or Stereo (a pair)?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:02 am
by Martin Walker
Hi w oxo cube!

No, I'm not sure anyone has said that - if anything we are talking about the opposite, with the bass-heavy tracks in mixes having bass harmonics added to them so that the bass is still audible on those tiny speakers/earbuds where the fundamentals may otherwise get lost.

We want our bass end to sound balanced on every system, regardless of its low-end capabilities.


Martin

Re: Avantone MixCube - which is preferable, Mono (1 cube) or Stereo (a pair)?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:34 am
by Jorge
The Elf wrote:
CS70 wrote:Well keep in mind you don’t mix for the phone, just so that it sounds good there as well.

Martin Walker wrote: We want our bass end to sound balanced on every system, regardless of its low-end capabilities.

I don't understand how a mix with prominent bass lines as well as vocal and instrumental melodic content throughout the audible frequency range can sound good on a live system with an overabundance of subwoofers, a studio system that is flat down to 30 Hz, a hi fi home stereo, a high quality set of mixing headphones, a laptop with external computer speakers, a laptop with its own speakers and a smartphone via speaker or ear buds. If the mix is such that the bass sounds balanced with the mids and highs on the small systems wouldn't the bass necessarily sound overhyped on the headphones or the larger flat or bass-heavy systems? What tricks do you guys use so you can have your cake and eat it too?

Re: Avantone MixCube - which is preferable, Mono (1 cube) or Stereo (a pair)?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:27 am
by The Elf
Jorge wrote:
The Elf wrote:
CS70 wrote:Well keep in mind you don’t mix for the phone, just so that it sounds good there as well.

Martin Walker wrote: We want our bass end to sound balanced on every system, regardless of its low-end capabilities.

I don't understand how a mix with prominent bass lines as well as vocal and instrumental melodic content throughout the audible frequency range can sound good on a live system with an overabundance of subwoofers, a studio system that is flat down to 30 Hz, a hi fi home stereo, a high quality set of mixing headphones, a laptop with external computer speakers, a laptop with its own speakers and a smartphone via speaker or ear buds. If the mix is such that the bass sounds balanced with the mids and highs on the small systems wouldn't the bass necessarily sound overhyped on the headphones or the larger flat or bass-heavy systems? What tricks do you guys use so you can have your cake and eat it too?
I mix to achieve a 'commercial average'. If my mix sounds good on one system, then it will sound good on any. That doesn't mean it will sound *the same* on any playback system, for obvious reasons!

Get a decent, tonally-balanced mix and it will give of its best on any system you play it back on. No tricks, just carefully managed mixing...

Re: Avantone MixCube - which is preferable, Mono (1 cube) or Stereo (a pair)?

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:58 pm
by Martin Walker
I agree with The Elf - you can create mixes that sound acceptable through ear buds without making the same mix sound dreadful through a club system.

It's all a matter of being aware of how audible the bass end will be through each system, and making sure it sounds good through them all.

The only really tricky sounds are those pure sinewave subs that sometimes get featured in EDM and Dubstep, which would be inaudible through earbuds, but once again, a little upper harmonic contribution wouldn't destroy the club experience, but would make those sub contributions at least audible through the ear buds.


Martin

Re: Avantone MixCube - which is preferable, Mono (1 cube) or Stereo (a pair)?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:03 pm
by Jorge
Thanks, I hadn't thought about the bass harmonics that imply the bass content below the roll-off on ear buds or computer speakers being relatively unobtrusive on a club system. Whether we call that a trick or not, I do suspect your careful finesse and mixing skills are not shared by a good number of commercial mix engineers. I mainly am doing live sound now but sometimes provide between-sets dj music. On some commercially mixed songs in which I can hear the bass lines reasonably well on a laptop speaker, I sometimes find the need to make 5 or 10 dB cuts in the low and midbass when playing them through live PA speakers with even modest subwoofers. I really object to not being able to hear the vocals, horns and piano clearly because the bass is overpowering them. Makes me wonder whether the current fad of overhyped bass in club venues isn't in part a result of people getting used to hearing recordings that were mixed to sound good on bass-light computer speakers or ear buds when they are then played on club systems with much more bass capability.

Re: Avantone MixCube - which is preferable, Mono (1 cube) or Stereo (a pair)?

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:14 pm
by Martin Walker
Jorge wrote:On some commercially mixed songs in which I can hear the bass lines reasonably well on a laptop speaker, I sometimes find the need to make 5 or 10 dB cuts in the low and midbass when playing them through live PA speakers with even modest subwoofers.

But that to me is a classic sign of a poor mix that doesn't translate across different systems.

A good mixing engineer should still be able to create the 'bass heavy' experience on a club track without that same mix sounding wimpy on ear buds, and vice versa.


Martin

Re: Avantone MixCube - which is preferable, Mono (1 cube) or Stereo (a pair)?

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:43 pm
by Jorge
I agree, that is a poor mix. But that doesn't stop people from liking the hyped bass, and even asking for it back when I EQ it down enough that you can actually hear the vocals and piano!

Re: Avantone MixCube - which is preferable, Mono (1 cube) or Stereo (a pair)?

PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:47 pm
by The Elf
Martin Walker wrote:
Jorge wrote:On some commercially mixed songs in which I can hear the bass lines reasonably well on a laptop speaker, I sometimes find the need to make 5 or 10 dB cuts in the low and midbass when playing them through live PA speakers with even modest subwoofers.
But that to me is a classic sign of a poor mix that doesn't translate across different systems.
+1

Jorge wrote:I agree, that is a poor mix. But that doesn't stop people from liking the hyped bass, and even asking for it back when I EQ it down enough that you can actually hear the vocals and piano!
Then you either do what you feel to be right, and have the confidence to sell that to your client; or you do what they want, smile and walk away from it. Professional audio is about so much more than the technical chops...

Re: Avantone MixCube - which is preferable, Mono (1 cube) or Stereo (a pair)?

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:46 pm
by Martin Walker
The Elf wrote:Professional audio is about so much more than the technical chops...

So true ;)


Martin