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John Bonham quantized - fascinating!

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John Bonham quantized - fascinating!

Postby Martin Walker » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:25 pm

Hi everyone!

Stumbled across this today, and it's well worth viewing IMO, to see a classic example of why quantizing can so easily strip the humanity for a real world performance:

"So how would John Bonham sound if Led Zeppelin came out in 2019? Would the Led Zeppelin sound be processed and quantized like all of the other contemporary rock music? Would there be the recognizable John Bonham drum sound and style? I try to answer that in this episode of Everything Music."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT4fFolyZYU


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Re: John Bonham quantized - fascinating!

Postby The Elf » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:50 pm

I think the quantised versions sound just fine! :headbang:
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Re: John Bonham quantized - fascinating!

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:54 pm

Martin Walker wrote:Stumbled across this today, and it's well worth viewing IMO, to see a classic example of why quantizing can so easily strip the humanity for a real world performance:

Absolutely. Although I'm not entirely convinced with the mechanics of what he was doing to make the point, the point itself is valid and just playing the quantised version makes it well.
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Re: John Bonham quantized - fascinating!

Postby The Red Bladder » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:13 pm

I hope you all realise that you can ruin John Bonham's drums far faster in Reaper!

That took him over a quarter of an hour - I can ruin a drum track in a couple of minutes!
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Re: John Bonham quantized - fascinating!

Postby The Korff » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:16 pm

I find it's quicker and easier to ruin drums at the recording stage.
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Re: John Bonham quantized - fascinating!

Postby desmond » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:32 pm

Umm... a tempo of *170* bpm in that first part?

(Edit: just listened to the second track, was thinking, OK that's a tempo somewhere between 60 and 70, and his tempo detection is again double that at 130 bmp... )

Does he not actually *listen* to the part, rather than rely on a dumb tempo report from the software (or maybe he was tapping eights, when the software was expecting quarter notes..) ?

It's clearly half that tempo, at around 85 bpm... :headbang:

Ok, I know it's not the point of the video, but this is what happens when we are focusing way too much on what our eyes are telling us, and not actively *listening* and analysing what we hear.

Anyway, yes, hard quantising a part that's played with actual feel sounds dull and boring, because al the skill, feel and musician's intent has been stripped out of it. Plus, a lot of "modern" computer-based musicians are so used to playing to rigid tempos (quantised or not) that they don't have variable tempos in their vocabulary. As soon as I had tools to vary tempo in programmed parts, I would almost alway program in tempo dynamics as part of a song structure.

I'm less keen on rock music being quantised anyway, it seems a bit pointless. Fixing timing in these contexts is more about improving *bad* drumming, rather than messing with good drumming... Hard quantising is more of an aesthetic from other kinds of music, for my tastes.
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Re: John Bonham quantized - fascinating!

Postby desmond » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:37 pm

The Red Bladder wrote:I hope you all realise that you can ruin John Bonham's drums far faster in Reaper!

The Korff wrote:I find it's quicker and easier to ruin drums at the recording stage.

Good chuckles - thnx! :lol:
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Re: John Bonham quantized - fascinating!

Postby Mixedup » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:42 pm

Obviously, it only doesn't sound right because he didn't have the multitracks and so couldn't time-align the room mic :headbang:

On a separate note, I did enjoy Mr Beato's Apple rant a couple of years ago.
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Re: John Bonham quantized - fascinating!

Postby Rich Hanson » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:15 pm

The Korff wrote:I find it's quicker and easier to ruin drums at the recording stage.

A drummer acquaintance of mine is more than capable of ruining the drums long before you're anywhere near a studio :roll:
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Re: John Bonham quantized - fascinating!

Postby Martin Walker » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:46 pm

Mixedup wrote:On a separate note, I did enjoy Mr Beato's Apple rant a couple of years ago.

Oh that's glorious! :clap:


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Re: John Bonham quantized - fascinating!

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:58 pm

desmond wrote:...or maybe he was tapping eights, when the software was expecting quarter notes..?

Yes, he was tapping eights.

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Re: John Bonham quantized - fascinating!

Postby CS70 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:43 pm

desmond wrote: 130 bmp... )


Ok, I know it's not the point of the video, but this is what happens when we are focusing way too much on what our eyes are telling us, and not actively *listening* and analysing what we hear..

Oh well I’d rather say that the actual BPMs are irrelevant when you are in a music making mindset.. when I do use a metronome, I simply want a feel that works with what I’m doing,, I cannot care less about either the bpm or the time signature, it either feels right or it doesn’t. It’s not intellectual knowledge that matters at that stage

Counting eights in that video sounded ok to me for the purpose..
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