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More money than sense?

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Re: More money than sense?

Postby TNGator » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:23 pm

Guys in relation to sound quality in recordings, i have another question. But as it relates to guitars in particular I'll post a new forum topic rather than mix it in here.
Keep an eye out please guys, I'd love your thoughts on the next topic if thats ok. We are talking guitar amp sim plug ins.
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Re: More money than sense?

Postby CS70 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:49 am

TNGator wrote:
CS70 wrote:
TNGator wrote: Im always envious of the recordings I hear on Reverb nation and such. But those are quite possibly pro recordings.

That's where this forum can be invaluable.. maybe worth another thread, but what you aren't satisfied with your productions, with respect to these? What's different? Exploring that difference and even acquiring the vocabulary to describe it can be really useful :)

Yeah I listen to these mixes but its very hard to describe a sound in words. Theirs just sounds "better". Maybe the guitar has a better tone. Maybe its the vocals. Maybe the whole production sounds bigger, warmer, not light and tinny. It can range from any of those things. A fella can always use one of his fave pro songs as a ref. But then you're not comparing apples with apples. The latest Taylor S cut was most likely not done on an old Dell laptop with a hanging duvet LOL ..... but ya never know :) :headbang:

Well nothin' wrong with a duvet and an old Dell Laptop, especially if it's a Latitude E6300 ;-)

But yeah I guess your issue is there - not so much describing in words what's wrong, but having an idea of what it is... which is kinda similar. It's a common saying here that a great mix is made by getting many tiny details right as opposite to one single sweeping move.. but it can be ruined by a single sweeping move :-)

I'd been working on the track I'm gonna release in a couple weeks on and off for a few evenings, and the mix was sucking big time.. couldnt' get a decent balance (and normally it
takes a minute), vocals wouldn't sit, I couldn't get the drums to sound exciting without overpowering the rest.. it was very frustrating. Then one day I decide to leave the video stuff to the evening and work the mix in the morning, with a fresh head.

So I looked again at the guitar bus and found that for some reason at some point I'd tried a dollop of mid boost. Nice bell boost centered at around 350Hz. No idea why. Probably was one of these "lets try and hear what happens" things. I obviously had liked it, since I'd left it there.. but at a much later stage that boost was whacking the whole mix out of balance, interfering with the vocals in a way that it wasn't possible to find the sweet spot for them, because there wasn't any. And I had been working for days at it with no idea! (I didnt remember at all doing it)

Took it way, adjusted the vocals - bam!, the whole mix goes to another level. After that move, all the rest was a breeze, and the mix passed the kid-in- the-car test with flying colors (get your 4 years old in the car, play his favorite song - these days "I'm blue" - and then your mix. If he keeps dancing and moving and trying to sing with your mix, it's a good mix).

It's not always that simple but lots of times is about doing too much than too little.
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Re: More money than sense?

Postby CS70 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:53 am

== DUPLICATE ==
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Re: More money than sense?

Postby TNGator » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:43 am

CS70 wrote:
TNGator wrote:
CS70 wrote:
TNGator wrote: Im always envious of the recordings I hear on Reverb nation and such. But those are quite possibly pro recordings.




Well nothin' wrong with a duvet and an old Dell Laptop, especially if it's a Latitude E6300 ;-)

But yeah I guess your issue is there - not so much describing in words what's wrong, but having an idea of what it is... which is kinda similar. It's a common saying here that a great mix is made by getting many tiny details right as opposite to one single sweeping move.. but it can be ruined by a single sweeping move :-)

And thats the frustration I guess, the not knowing exactly what it is they are doing better other than....they're better.
Im going through something similar with my current song in that I thought it was ok. Had everything recorded. played it back and suddenly hated the guitars. They seem too far back at times, then they seem muddy and one sounds raspy. I feel like i just want to mute them all then bring them back in one at a time and decide if i can fix it or record it again. its a country rock track so the GTR is heavy. But I dont want metal. I listen to the pros and they have this nice overdriven rock GTR but its still melodic. Im happy with the bass and the drums tone etc. Vocals Im pretty happy with too. So perhaps Im making progress. The GTRs are doing my head in though on this one. I swear I'll probably delete the lot and re-record. But again...as was suggested earlier....do smaller sessions...take your time and have a few listens before moving on. I think our family motto is deffo Headless Chicken.
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Re: More money than sense?

Postby TNGator » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:22 am

Well well we think I just found a toy here that will certainly keep me occupied for a few months.
I have been using Sonar X3 for a few years now (the basic version) . the platinum version was a bit pricey. And it served my needs just fine. But then Gibson shut down Sonar. So Bandlab came to the rescue and relaunched it as Cakewalk By Bandlab and made it available as the Platinum version of the old Sonar. So i now have what was the platinum DAW and about a month ago i started dipping my toes into the new DAW. And guess what comes built in? TH3 amp sim. Im not sure how it fares compared to others but hey....it comes with the DAW so what the hell. Go play with it bro. Theres a TON of presets, amps, cabs, mics and pedal effects. So yeah I dont think i need to buy anything for a good while yet. It looks pretty cool. You can pick more than one amp for example and drag and drop the icons so that amps can be in series or parallel. Cancel life outside the house...I'll be busy in front of this here screen.
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Re: More money than sense?

Postby blinddrew » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:44 pm

Should keep you occupied for a bit. :thumbup:
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Re: More money than sense?

Postby TNGator » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:50 pm

blinddrew wrote:Should keep you occupied for a bit. :thumbup:
Bro youve no idea. :headbang:
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Re: More money than sense?

Postby ConcertinaChap » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:25 am

TNGator wrote:Cancel life outside the house...I'll be busy in front of this here screen.

Be cautious - life has a way of uncancelling itself just when you're not looking ...

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Re: More money than sense?

Postby CS70 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:51 am

TNGator wrote:And thats the frustration I guess, the not knowing exactly what it is they are doing better other than....they're better.
Im going through something similar with my current song in that I thought it was ok. Had everything recorded. played it back and suddenly hated the guitars. They seem too far back at times, then they seem muddy and one sounds raspy. I feel like i just want to mute them all then bring them back in one at a time and decide if i can fix it or record it again. its a country rock track so the GTR is heavy. But I dont want metal. I listen to the pros and they have this nice overdriven rock GTR but its still melodic. Im happy with the bass and the drums tone etc. Vocals Im pretty happy with too. So perhaps Im making progress. The GTRs are doing my head in though on this one. I swear I'll probably delete the lot and re-record. But again...as was suggested earlier....do smaller sessions...take your time and have a few listens before moving on. I think our family motto is deffo Headless Chicken.

Haha yeah we're always making progress. Something that often helps is to realize that in a mix the perception of an instrument depends really on the others as much as itself.

For example, take a mix and bring up the overheads too much, and the guitars will sound tiny and feeble. Bring the overheads down, the very same guitar track will sound absolutely overpowering. So if your guitar seem to go to the back at times, it often is because something else gets to the front - that's typical especially of sources which are moving (vocals often, but any instrument that is hand-held and mic-ed directly).

Of course there's also the playing technique - first thing is to check that the track in isolation sounds like it's supposed to sound (dynamically and playing wise, not so much the timbre), and fix it or re-play it if it doesn't.

Afterwards you can (and with guitars, you usually should) mangle that timbre as much as needed, but always best to start from a very good take.
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Re: More money than sense?

Postby Zukan » Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:52 am

I think articles, videos etc on the subject of audio production are great tools to have but nothing compares to booking an engineer for the day and mixing one of your tracks with him/her. That is worth every penny.

This is an interesting thread and one that is actually quite important to me as my business is heading down a different path than the usual 'providing educational content for everyone'. The new model will be webinar based and will be exclusive to a select handful of intermediates/professionals who might need advice during production or mastering. The idea is to provide a personal service tailored to the client's needs as opposed to broadband advice about everything.

The existing site will now become a subscriptions based site and will be cheap to the struggling producer and will carry 200 odd videos and a bunch of masterclass videos BUT I am trying to move away from writing eBooks and creating videos in favour of a bespoke service for a handful of clients.

I have taken the last month off working on the new site and business model. I have paid for a marketing specialist who has helped a great deal and her observations have led me down this route.

I believe that if someone is serious about their craft then they should invest in a good tutor or book an engineer to help with their mixes. I equate this to the number of music teachers available for instrument lessons and they charge more than say Elf and I do to tutor for a day.

We have to stop selling ourselves short. The software developers have successfully bankrupted the educational sector with their inane pricing wars and acres of value added content that are freely available on their websites which in turn have put a number of tutorial sites and tutors out of business.

For most people a site like SOS is a godsend as it provides quality content you can always rely on. I only ever use SOS if I am stuck and if I needed help I would gladly pay for it.
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Re: More money than sense?

Postby blinddrew » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:57 pm

:clap: :clap: :clap:
Good luck with the revised approach Eddie, feels like a better targeting of your skills and experience. :)
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Re: More money than sense?

Postby Zukan » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:47 am

Thanks Blind.
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Re: More money than sense?

Postby Mike Stranks » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:55 am

Yup! I think your Marketing person has come up with the goods.

Your past experience gives you credibility and - much as you don't name-drop - your past associations will cause people to think that you really do know what you're talking about. In simple terms: there are already loads of people selling Fords; go after the ones that are looking for Bentleys. :lol:

All the very best Ed. I shall watch your future career with interest!
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Re: More money than sense?

Postby Eddy Deegan » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:12 am

Zukan wrote:The new model will be webinar based and will be exclusive to a select handful of intermediates/professionals who might need advice during production or mastering. The idea is to provide a personal service tailored to the client's needs as opposed to broadband advice about everything.

The existing site will now become a subscriptions based site and will be cheap to the struggling producer and will carry 200 odd videos and a bunch of masterclass videos BUT I am trying to move away from writing eBooks and creating videos in favour of a bespoke service for a handful of clients.

That sounds like an exciting venture, and one that is perfect for your talents as well. I wish you the very best of success with it :thumbup: :clap:
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Re: More money than sense?

Postby Zukan » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:03 am

Thanks Eddy.
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Re: More money than sense?

Postby ConcertinaChap » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:26 am

blinddrew wrote:Good luck with the revised approach Eddie, feels like a better targeting of your skills and experience. :)

I strongly second that. I think you're quite right to try something in a less crowded market place and suspect you'll enjoy it a lot more too.

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Re: More money than sense?

Postby Folderol » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:53 am

Sound like a good plan to me too, and gives you the chance to focus on your skills in a more targeted way.
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Re: More money than sense?

Postby Martin Walker » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:13 pm

Hi Eddie,

I'm hoping and praying that this new marketing person has got you on the more lucrative track that you most definitely deserve :clap: 8-)


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Re: More money than sense?

Postby Zukan » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:39 am

Thanks Martin, thanks guys.

I really didn't want to hog this thread. I was merely trying to respond to the OP's question about costs for tuition.

My apologies.
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Re: More money than sense?

Postby Arpangel » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:57 am

I went to uni and studied music, did it make me a better musician? No.
It taught me how to drink a lot of cheap beer and how to get into arguments with tutors.
On the positive side, it taught me how to work, and collaborate with others, I've never been the same since, that really did change me. So in that respect, I suppose it did make me a better musician, in group situations. But as for learning anything else, no.
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