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Really?

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Re: Really?

Postby Eddy Deegan » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:35 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:
hobbyist wrote:
How long until a member of the audience sues and wins when some rock concert blows his hearing out?


Probably a long time. Audience members choose to go to a concert... and can choose to leave if the sound is too loud or is unpleasant. That's what I've done on more than one occasion.

So far, legislation is about protecting the hearing of those who have no choice but to be subjected to loud noise over an extended period. In my experience concert-goers who think the sound is too loud are in a significant minority.

+1. I wrote a similar reply earlier but didn't post it because it's only opinion (and there's a little too much opinion cited as fact floating around in the forums at the moment for my taste). Given the many thousands of live events going on these days someone would have to have one heck of a case, and it would seem rather a challenge.

If it's too loud, leave before it's a problem. In live rock scenarios I would be very surprised if an audience member suffered damage unless they put themselves in a position so to receive it, and they would have to defend that.

If 20, 50 or 100 people all got hearing damage at once, that's a different story of course. I'd say it's less likely than me going to a football match in the next 10 years (based on the fact I've been to exactly none in the last 49).
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Re: Really?

Postby blinddrew » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:38 pm

Most venues will provide earplugs on request anyway. Well, decent venues will, the Rat and Roach on Back Street might not...
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Re: Really?

Postby Mike Stranks » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:09 am

Oops!

Last post of mine... for 'significant' read 'tiny'.... :blush:

I've edited your post with that correction, Mike, just to avoid any confusion for those reading through -- HR
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Re: Really?

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:30 am

Eddy Deegan wrote:I'd say it's less likely than me going to a football match in the next 10 years (based on the fact I've been to exactly none in the last 49).

[Total digression, and where's the harm in that?]. 20 years ago, oddly enough quite close to my 49th birthday, I was database designer on a major system we were developing for Northern Electric, who had a private box at the Sunderland Stadium of Light. The project was going well and one day our opposite numbers at NE invited the senior staff to go to a game in the private box with lashings of food and booze laid on. So of course we did. The fact that I had never been to a football match before (and have not done so since) didn't, I'm afraid, stop me.

The moral of the story is choose your comparisons carefully. You never know when they might be invalidated :)

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Re: Really?

Postby Eddy Deegan » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:59 am

ConcertinaChap wrote:
Eddy Deegan wrote:I'd say it's less likely than me going to a football match in the next 10 years (based on the fact I've been to exactly none in the last 49).

[Total digression, and where's the harm in that?]. 20 years ago, oddly enough quite close to my 49th birthday, I was database designer on a major system we were developing for Northern Electric, who had a private box at the Sunderland Stadium of Light. The project was going well and one day our opposite numbers at NE invited the senior staff to go to a game in the private box with lashings of food and booze laid on. So of course we did. The fact that I had never been to a football match before (and have not done so since) didn't, I'm afraid, stop me.

The moral of the story is choose your comparisons carefully. You never know when they might be invalidated :)

CC

In my case I think the comparison stands, insofar as I wasn't saying it to be completety impossible, just very unlikely :-)

ConcertinaChap wrote:[Total digression, and where's the harm in that?]

You know me, I do like an aside now and again! Something equally unlikely did happen to me once. I was standing on top of a mountain in Nepal in the middle of the night, quite lubricated from the local brew produced by the villagers that lived there (I was one of a party who they were guesting for the night).

A wonderful 70 year old lady was in our group. She had lost her husband relatively recently prior and had decided to throw a lifetime of caution to the wind and travel the world. One of the locals had produced a certain plant which is will known for its medicinal qualities and discreetly shared some with one or two select folks, myself included.

As I was standing away from the fire, looking in awe and wonder at the Himalayas around me and partaking of said plant, the lady I mentioned approached me and asked if she could have some. She had never done it before, nor was going to do it again but felt that the moment was right for her to tick it off the list, so to speak.

She gently partook and pronounced herself delighted with the feeling, though declined more than a couple of samples of it. As this was going on, a British police sergeant (who was drunk) walked up to us and not knowing what we were doing, only that we were in the darkness away from the group said (jokingly) in a loud voice "Hello hello hello, what's going on here then?". Whereupon I asked him how he knew what we were doing?

He looked at me quizzically (for he had not twigged we were doing anything in reality) and I informed him that his powers of deduction were probably diminished by the booze. As the penny dropped he laughted uproariously and minced off into the night (for he is a gay British policeman and does an amazing mince when he's had a few).

Thus, my wonderful 70 year old travelling companion acquired quite a good anecdote for future dinner parties about how the first (and only) time she was doing weed it was at the top of a mountain, in Nepal, in the middle of the night and she got caught by a UK copper who promptly hysterically danced off in a camp fashion.

What are the odds? ;)
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Re: Really?

Postby Martin Walker » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:21 pm

Lovely story Eddy, and very well told :clap:


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Re: Really?

Postby Kwackman » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:32 pm

Martin Walker wrote:Lovely story Eddy, and very well told :clap:


Martin

Agreed. You and Zukan should get together and write a monthly column!
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Re: Really?

Postby Mike Stranks » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:10 pm

Kwackman wrote:
Martin Walker wrote:Lovely story Eddy, and very well told :clap:


Martin

Agreed. You and Zukan should get together and write a monthly column!

Now there's a thought...

Just yesterday I was lamenting the demise of Paul Farrer's monthly column...
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Re: Really?

Postby blinddrew » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:20 pm

Whilst we're digressing on coincidental meetings...
Botswana is a very flat country, but there's a hill just outside the capital that is the highest point around. So one morning I cycled out there and climbed the hill just because I was getting restless. Whilst sitting at the top I saw someone else climbing up and when he reached the top we had a chat.
At the time, I was studying mechanical engineering at Heriot Watt university in Edinburgh. He, it turns out, was one block over and studying electrical engineering. We'd spent most of the last two years in the same maths, physics and chemistry lectures.
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Re: Really?

Postby ConcertinaChap » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:38 am

Really?

(There, that's brought us back on topic).

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Re: Really?

Postby Logarhythm » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:11 am

Or, for those of you reading in small room calibrated to 85dB, perhaps:

ConcertinaChap wrote:REALLY?

:mrgreen:
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Re: Really?

Postby CS70 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:46 am

Just to make the discussion a little constructive on the OP subject, I find it very useful to spend most time mixing at low levels - so low that it's perfectly possible to have a conversation while the music is playing. If you manage to make stuff interesting and exciting at that level, when you go "normal" level it gets really great.

Conversely, I always check for short times at a louder than "normal" level - to ensure things don't get grating and the bass sits nicely also when pushing.

"normal" is whatever level I like to listen to my references - a level where I can catch the nuances of the mix but it's still plenty comfortable to listen to.
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Re: Really?

Postby hobbyist » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:29 pm

CS70 wrote:Just to make the discussion a little constructive on the OP subject, I find it very useful to spend most time mixing at low leves - so low that it's perfectly possible to have a conversation while the music is playing. If you manage to make stuff interesting and exciting at that level, when you go "normal" level it gets really great.

Conversely, I always check for short times at a louder than "normal" level - to ensure things don't get grating and the bass sits nicely also when pushing.

"normal" is whatever level I like to listen to my references - a level where I can catch the nuances of the mix but it's still plenty comfortable to listen to.


Well, I dont talk while I mix but I do prefer lower levels.

Agree that normal is where you want to listen and trying to mix to some really loud level because some 'experts' say that is what you have to do is foolish.
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Re: Really?

Postby Mike Stranks » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:36 pm

hobbyist wrote:
Agree that normal is where you want to listen and trying to mix to some really loud level because some 'experts' say that is what you have to do is foolish.

For (probably) twentieth time, no-one is saying that you HAVE to mix at a certain level.

There is a standard that is the recommended level for mixes that are to be transferred between large commercial studios.

Neither you, I nor anyone else is obliged to mix at that level in our own little worlds - as we have discussed and stated numerous times here.

Why is that so difficult to understand?
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Re: Really?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:50 pm

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Re: Really?

Postby hobbyist » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:37 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:
hobbyist wrote:
Agree that normal is where you want to listen and trying to mix to some really loud level because some 'experts' say that is what you have to do is foolish.

For (probably) twentieth time, no-one is saying that you HAVE to mix at a certain level.

There is a standard that is the recommended level for mixes that are to be transferred between large commercial studios.

Neither you, I nor anyone else is obliged to mix at that level in our own little worlds - as we have discussed and stated numerous times here.

Why is that so difficult to understand?


Sorry you are confused. There *are* a lot of (alleged) experts who say you do have to mix at 85.

The OP said the tape he got on mixing said to do that.
I have seen that claim at many websites that tell you how to mix 'right'.

The standard may say to transfer files at some set level, but too many people do not understand the standard and the standards writers do not really understand FletcherMunson. It was set by groups who like loud sounds thinking louder is better and louder is what audiences in a theatre really want. Maybe at rock concerts but not at the movies.
And never on my TV or stereo.
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Re: Really?

Postby Kwackman » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:45 pm

hobbyist wrote:Sorry you are confused. There *are* a lot of (alleged) experts who say you do have to mix at 85..

I'm with Mike on this.
No one (to my knowledge) on THIS forum says to mix at this level.
This is obviously your hobby horse, so maybe go onto the forums/sites where these "experts" say this and challenge them there?
You're singing to the choir here, and we'd like a new song! ;)
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Re: Really?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:46 pm

hobbyist wrote:There *are* a lot of (alleged) experts who say you do have to mix at 85.

NOT HERE.

I have seen that claim at many websites that tell you how to mix 'right'.

NOT HERE!

... the standards writers do not really understand FletcherMunson. It was set by groups who like loud sounds thinking louder is better and louder is what audiences in a theatre really want.

That's entirely presumptive rather than factual.

H
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Re: Really?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:47 pm

Kwackman wrote:You're singing to the choir here, and we'd like a new song! ;)

:clap: Very good. I like that! :D
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Re: Really?

Postby Mike Stranks » Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:37 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Kwackman wrote:You're singing to the choir here, and we'd like a new song! ;)

:clap: Very good. I like that! :D

... and nobody will expect you to sing at 85dB...
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