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Automation on mastering

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Automation on mastering

Postby aviorrok » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:48 pm

Hi,
As you can see my track is quiet at start and end but loud at drop.
Can I make a gain automation on mastering or it's not recommend.

Image


Thanks!
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Re: Automation on mastering

Postby Wonks » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:57 pm

Looks lovely and dynamic to me. But it depends a lot on the style of music. Have a look at some reference tracks for that style and see what they look like in terms of peak levels and overall loudness.

And it's really better to use your ears than look at graphs like that when deciding if the track sounds OK. Yes you need to check, the graphs, but mainly for over-compression and over-limiting so that evertything's at the same level all the time and fatiguing to listen to,
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Re: Automation on mastering

Postby aviorrok » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:30 pm

Wonks wrote:Looks lovely and dynamic to me. But it depends a lot on the style of music. Have a look at some reference tracks for that style and see what they look like in terms of peak levels and overall loudness.

And it's really better to use your ears than look at graphs like that when deciding if the track sounds OK. Yes you need to check, the graphs, but mainly for over-compression and over-limiting so that evertything's at the same level all the time and fatiguing to listen to,
Thanks, it's EDM track (before mastering)
Here's a reference track ITS SO LOUD, I don't know how can I reach to this level.
The peak on mix is 4.7db when I start to add limiter on mastering and make gain I can't reach to this level without hard compress :(


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Re: Automation on mastering

Postby Martin Walker » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:06 pm

aviorrok wrote:Thanks, it's EDM track (before mastering)
Here's a reference track ITS SO LOUD, I don't know how can I reach to this level.

Image

Noooooooo.... Don't squash your track to smithereens like that :crazy:

EDM can sometimes end up like this, but it doesn't have to. Do take a look at well-recorded/mastered material by artists such as Tipper as an idea of what to aim for.


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Re: Automation on mastering

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:47 pm

aviorrok wrote:Can I make a gain automation on mastering or it's not recommend

Yes, you can use automation to make the track louder if you really want to. Or compression. Or limiting. Or even intentional overload/clipping... Or all of them!

But please don't feel you have to make your track look like the reference track. It needs to sound right...
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Re: Automation on mastering

Postby aviorrok » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:59 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
aviorrok wrote:Can I make a gain automation on mastering or it's not recommend

Yes, you can use automation to make the track louder if you really want to. Or compression. Or limiting. Or even intentional overload/clipping... Or all of them!

But please don't feel you have to make your track look like the reference track. It needs to sound right...
The reference track is Happier by Marshmello, can you give me a few tips how can I make the sound louder except from compressor and limiter.
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Re: Automation on mastering

Postby Zukan » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:32 am

It's easy to make the track as loud as hell but why would you want to?

One technique for EDM loud as hell processing is to use a clipper with a limiter or two stages of brickwall limiting. In fact there are plugins designed like this and specifically to make things painfully loud.
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Re: Automation on mastering

Postby Mike Stranks » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:42 am

aviorrok wrote:The reference track is Happier by Marshmello, can you give me a few tips how can I make the sound louder except from compressor and limiter.

Not really; that's how tracks are made to sound louder...
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Re: Automation on mastering

Postby CS70 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:51 am

aviorrok wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:
aviorrok wrote:Can I make a gain automation on mastering or it's not recommend

Yes, you can use automation to make the track louder if you really want to. Or compression. Or limiting. Or even intentional overload/clipping... Or all of them!

But please don't feel you have to make your track look like the reference track. It needs to sound right...
The reference track is Happier by Marshmello, can you give me a few tips how can I make the sound louder except from compressor and limiter.

Loud is about contrasts - listened to that track and it starts very sparse and empty and fills up over time, feeling louder and louder. Hip hop stuff can be often louder without sucking because the arrangement is so sparse (a beat, some bass, keys, a dry-ish vocal and ear candy every 3 seconds).

If you talk about absolute loudness, compression and limiter are the way to go - but it's very easy to make it suck big time.
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Re: Automation on mastering

Postby Kwackman » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:56 am

Zukan wrote:It's easy to make the track as loud as hell but why would you want to?

One technique for EDM loud as hell processing is to use a clipper with a limiter or two stages of brickwall limiting. In fact there are plugins designed like this and specifically to make things painfully loud.

Hi Aviorrok,

Zukan is keeping his light under a bushel here.
If you click on the links in his signature, you will find some tutorials and other stuff dealing specifically with your genre, as it's Zukan's home turf.
He's a clever boy!
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Re: Automation on mastering

Postby The Elf » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:03 am

And get it happening in *the mix*. If you leave it to mastering you've left it too late.
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Re: Automation on mastering

Postby Ramirez » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:38 am

Martin Walker wrote:Tipper

Thanks for this Martin. New to me - currently listening to and enjoying the latest album.


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Re: Automation on mastering

Postby Martin Walker » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:37 pm

Ramirez wrote:
Martin Walker wrote:Tipper

Thanks for this Martin. New to me - currently listening to and enjoying the latest album.


As you were...

Glad you like Ramirez - it is beautifully crafted stuff with superb sound design, and a great example of how to make EDM/Electronica loud without overdoing things.

Here's his Bandcamp page: https://tipper.bandcamp.com/music


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Re: Automation on mastering

Postby blinddrew » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:23 pm

Another thanks from me Martin, will have a proper delve into that stuff later. :thumbup:
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Re: Automation on mastering

Postby The Bunk » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:56 pm

...^ ^ and, er, from me too! From a quick listen (Tipper), that's lovely stuff, right up one of my streets. On that visual graph posted right at the star (edit, the later one that fills the screen solid, not the first one), I used to sometimes think that's what I wanted but as has been mentioned, the ears are a better guide than the eyes and now I actually shudder when something like that pops up when I'm rendering in Reaper.
And, from a response to a question I once asked on the subject, the graph can be misleading anyway as it depends, amongst several other things, on the length of the track compared to the size of the window, and the overall scale of the graph etc. - although I'm sure someone will correct me if that's not quite right.
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Re: Automation on mastering

Postby Martin Walker » Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:47 pm

Glad so many people are enjoying David Tipper's music - I personally think his mixing/mastering is sufficiently good to use his tracks for reference purposes.

Beautifully put together!


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Re: Automation on mastering

Postby PKRain » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:21 am

aviorrok wrote:
Wonks wrote:Looks lovely and dynamic to me. But it depends a lot on the style of music. Have a look at some reference tracks for that style and see what they look like in terms of peak levels and overall loudness.

And it's really better to use your ears than look at graphs like that when deciding if the track sounds OK. Yes you need to check, the graphs, but mainly for over-compression and over-limiting so that evertything's at the same level all the time and fatiguing to listen to,
Thanks, it's EDM track (before mastering)
Here's a reference track ITS SO LOUD, I don't know how can I reach to this level.

The peak on mix is 4.7db when I start to add limiter on mastering and make gain I can't reach to this level without hard compress :(


Image
Try experimenting with a Multiband compressor, soft clip distortion, and brick wall limiter in that order (as an example). Don’t be afraid of distributing the workload between multiple compressors. In my opinion with EDM, as long as the mix is fantastic, the louder you can get the mix while being transparent the better. Just make sure to watch your LUFS and True Peak levels. After u get it where u think it sounds good, raise the volume on the unprocessed mix til it sounds as loud as the processed one and compare! It’s important to do this to make sure you’re not adding too much distortion and or compression. I usually make a few masters that way, then go back later and pick the best one.
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