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Orchestral reverb spacing

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Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:07 pm
by Hugh Robjohns
I guess it depends on what orchestral layout you're trying to model.... ;)

Really, I understand you want it to 'be right' but there is no 'right' because every orchestra is different and their seating plans change with different venues and different repertoires.

So just fiddle with the panning until it sounds right to you... but as the Elf says, the image width tends to decrease the further away things are...

H

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:41 pm
by Moroccomoose
Thanks, that settles the argument in my mind! I was torn between visualising panning as an angle in the sonic field, or as a distance to the right or left from the listening position. By visualising as an angle, no need to push things further L or R as they radiate away from the listening position.

Right - now to set up all the articulations :headbang: :beamup:

Cheers!

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:46 am
by Peterlkarl
I always set up 3-4 reverbs in DP, though not usually to simulate an orchestral performance environment. If I'm understanding what you're trying to, you could just set up 4 stereo Aux sends and returns, each with similar Proverb impulse responses employed, but varying pre-delay settings, (and maybe progressively longer decay times). Have a ball!

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:56 am
by The Elf
Peterlkarl wrote:I always set up 3-4 reverbs in DP, though not usually to simulate an orchestral performance environment. If I'm understanding what you're trying to, you could just set up 4 stereo Aux sends and returns, each with similar Proverb impulse responses employed, but varying pre-delay settings, (and maybe progressively longer decay times). Have a ball!
As I explained above, one reverb produces a less cluttered, less phasey and more convicing result that simply adding the same reverb multiple times.

Try it yourself and see.

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:39 am
by Zukan
Good technique Elf. I like.

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:55 am
by tadghostal
This is an excellent source of info! Thanks Elf and co. I've learned a lot just by reading this and trying it out. I'm going to incorporate it into my newbie work and see how it pans out

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:33 pm
by Martin Walker
tadghostal wrote:This is an excellent source of info! Thanks Elf and co. I've learned a lot just by reading this and trying it out. I'm going to incorporate it into my newbie work and see how it pans out

Of course you get extra SOS forum points for managing to slip in a pun there tadhostal :clap:


Martin

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:28 pm
by ManFromGlass
Pantastic ;)

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:49 pm
by Wonks
Don't fader way.

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:16 pm
by ManFromGlass
the constitution of an aux

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:20 pm
by Gone To Lunch
The Elf wrote:
As I explained above, one reverb produces a less cluttered, less phasey and more convicing result that simply adding the same reverb multiple times.

Try it yourself and see.

Indeed I did try this and that is exactly what I found, it is less cluttered and more convincing.

But I also grouped some of the sends thus, because it is such a PITA to use microscopic send controls in DP, I send individual instruments to a shared reverb aux bus thus

Strings - Vln1, Vln2, Vla, Vc, DB
WindsL - flute, oboe etc
WindsR- clarinets
Perc - all of them
Horns
Trumpets
Tbones
Piano, Mallets remain individual

However the indiv instruments are panned individually, they just share a common reverb

The reverb sends from the aux bus are varied to fake distance thus

B - Perc = 0
BM - Brass -4
FM - Winds -8
F - Strings - 12

Keys and Mallets in between BM & FM - 6

This is the best so far, but of course I am now drowning in the hell of infinite editing opportunities without a deadline to meet.

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:40 pm
by Sam Spoons
That looks as if you are delaying the strings and not the percussion, surely the percussion, who are at the front of the orchestra, would need more delay than the percussion who are at the back?

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:45 am
by Wonks
Sam Spoons wrote:That looks as if you are delaying the strings and not the percussion, surely the percussion, who are at the front of the orchestra, would need more delay than the percussion who are at the back?

Percussion front and back? Obviously a severe case of 'more cowbell'.

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:13 am
by Sam Spoons
Bugger :blush: , changed my mind on the phrasing but buggered up my edit (in my defence it was well past beer-o'clock).......

Percussion at back, long delay, strings at front short or no delay.

Re: Orchestral reverb spacing

PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:25 pm
by jimjazzdad
Gone To Lunch wrote:
The Elf wrote:
As I explained above, one reverb produces a less cluttered, less phasey and more convicing result that simply adding the same reverb multiple times.

Try it yourself and see.

Indeed I did try this and that is exactly what I found, it is less cluttered and more convincing.

But I also grouped some of the sends thus, because it is such a PITA to use microscopic send controls in DP, I send individual instruments to a shared reverb aux bus thus

Strings - Vln1, Vln2, Vla, Vc, DB
WindsL - flute, oboe etc
WindsR- clarinets
Perc - all of them
Horns
Trumpets
Tbones
Piano, Mallets remain individual

However the indiv instruments are panned individually, they just share a common reverb

The reverb sends from the aux bus are varied to fake distance thus

B - Perc = 0
BM - Brass -4
FM - Winds -8
F - Strings - 12

Keys and Mallets in between BM & FM - 6

This is the best so far, but of course I am now drowning in the hell of infinite editing opportunities without a deadline to meet.
Wow. Reading this makes my small but orderly brain hurt! This is exactly why I like to capture orchestra as simply as possible - an MS pair or maybe spaced omnis - and add a bit of Bricasti dust on the stereo bus as required. A well placed coincident pair will always give a more realistic image with depth than any amount of hocus pocus in post... (just my humble opinion; carry on!)