You are here

Common tools that never get used?

For everything after the recording stage: hardware/software and how you use it.

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:17 pm

Beats, loops and software synths programmed with mouse point and clicks.

Exactly; I would argue that this is indeed a form of instrument skill, just not a traditional one.
User avatar
Dr Huge Longjohns
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3165
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Gallifrey
"The performance is 99.9% of what people hear"- J. Leckie
"It's all complete nonsense, anyone who knows what they're doing can deliver great results with whatever comes to hand" - H. Robjohns

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby The Bunk » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:18 pm

CS70 wrote:
It just occurred to me that tools that never gets used by many (perhaps most) of younger producers and musicians are actual instruments! Lots of music made nowadays doesn't require much in the way of instrumental skills.

Absolutely! A while ago I actually put together a piece of music on which I actually played nothing; it was all samples. Fortunately I have enough general musical nous to be able to know how to put something like that together in the first place but I was actually intending to make a point of saying to some mates: "that's how an awful lot of music is made nowadays - you can knock up a song / instrumental without even being able to play an instrument".

Unfortunately, I actually enjoyed both the process and the outcome and now make a lot of music that way, but not at the expense of still playing and recording my real instruments.
User avatar
The Bunk
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:00 am
Location: SW London
2 answers; 799 questions and about 58 "Mornington Crescent" posts.

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby CS70 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:28 pm

Dr Huge Longjohns wrote:
Beats, loops and software synths programmed with mouse point and clicks.

Exactly; I would argue that this is indeed a form of instrument skill, just not a traditional one.

Well, yes and no. We (I) talk of instrumental skills as some ability dependent on physical time, and more - this physical time is quite short. "Traditional" playing consist (also) of developing neuro-motorial and muscle skills which allow you to play fluently, precisely an in total control at a reasonable speed.

Obviously speed it's not the only element of playing, but nevertheless is an unavoidable one. In other words, if it takes you three seconds to finger a chord on a guitar (or a keyboard), you cannot say that you can play. That's why I consider that I cannot play the keyboard or sight-read notes, even if I've occasionally invented melodies on it and can read a score.. slowly. :-D

The same goes for any instrument - or really any "skill".. the ability to produce musical phrases to a sufficient degree in a short amount of time.

In that sense, mouse and click aren't imho "instruments" - unless you're using them in real time.

But of course it's nitpicking, and I guess a definition can vary depending on the weight you put on the process or the output
User avatar
CS70
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4226
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Oslo, Norway
Silver Spoon - Check out our latest video  and the FB page

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:56 pm

So what would we call somebody who creates recorded music but can't sing or play an instrument in real time?
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10152
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby CS70 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:59 pm

Someone skilled in music production?
User avatar
CS70
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4226
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Oslo, Norway
Silver Spoon - Check out our latest video  and the FB page

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:03 pm

I was thinking 'composer' maybe but 'programmer' or 'producer' might also be appropriate.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10152
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby Watchmaker » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:20 pm

I don't use a mixing desk although I was trained on one and thought at first that I needed it. Now I have a Mackie MCU sitting in it's box in the back of a closet.

I don't use more than one guitar at a time.

I don't use the majority of plugins I've bought

I don't use the opinions of others to overturn decisions I've made

I don't use a food processor
User avatar
Watchmaker
Frequent Poster
Posts: 621
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:00 am
Location: Upstate NY, USA
Take my advice, I'm not using it.

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby WaterSharp » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:46 am

Wow, some people here don't use EQ? I don't think I've recorded a track that didn't have some EQ boost in it. EQ is a powerful studio tool and you'd be kidding yourself if you think even the most skilled engineers shy away from boosting EQ. Forget the art of mixing. EQ is an art form on its own and everyone approaches it differently.
User avatar
WaterSharp
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:00 am

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby Arpangel » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:59 am

Sam Spoons wrote:So what would we call somebody who creates recorded music but can't sing or play an instrument in real time?

Interesting, but where do we draw the lines? Are there any lines?
When do the loops and pre-formed beats become so easy to put together, like a Lego set, that literally anyone could make electronic music with absolutely no skill whatsoever. Does the "value" of this work reside entirely in the finished product, in which case the composer/programmer whatever you want to call them, will eventually become irrelevant, and we may as well just type some 'coordinates' and preferences into a computer and let that make the music for us, like Brian Eno's generative music, but for beat based genres, or any other genre for that matter.
User avatar
Arpangel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby CS70 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:20 am

Arpangel wrote:
Interesting, but where do we draw the lines? Are there any lines?
When do the loops and pre-formed beats become so easy to put together, like a Lego set, that literally anyone could make electronic music with absolutely no skill whatsoever. Does the "value" of this work reside entirely in the finished product, in which case the composer/programmer whatever you want to call them, will eventually become irrelevant, and we may as well just type some 'coordinates' and preferences into a computer and let that make the music for us, like Brian Eno's generative music, but for beat based genres, or any other genre for that matter.

There's already plenty of music-generating software, who can write in style of known composers or new styles (read https://qz.com/488701/humans-are-confus ... -j-s-bach/ for amusement and have a look at https://analyticsindiamag.com/7-online- ... own-music/ for a recent list ).

In any genre there's lots of formulaic work (to a degree, lots of commercial music has to be that way by definition, as we buy what we like and we like what we know). And it may be a little easier to create "Bach" works than "Mozart". Stuff like soundscapes are probably also easier to create by recipe. I haven't really looked at the attempts to generate AI vocalists, but there are already and more will come.

I think for pop music what is harder (again, at the moment) is that pop is much more than just the music. It's the image, the gigs etc.

It's also arguable that making music - also in a lego manner - is a skill by itself (doesn't need to be hard, to be a skill)
User avatar
CS70
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4226
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Oslo, Norway
Silver Spoon - Check out our latest video  and the FB page

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby blinddrew » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:53 pm

I'm not sure that an algorithm would produce anything more formulaic than a lot of the writing teams that currently supply the top-40. In fact, given time and a suitably large reference material set I reckon they'll do a better job.
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 8102
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby ManFromGlass » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:14 pm

If somebody or a bunch of somebodies create some music that I like I don’t care how they got there or what they call themselves.

Was the first Neanderthal who started beating a hollow log with 2 sticks in hand, instead of one stick cheating?
User avatar
ManFromGlass
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2223
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:00 am
Location: In the woods in Canada
 

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby Arpangel » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:23 pm

I don't know why I felt the need to post this on this thread, but I thought it belonged, somehow.
And only two fingers playing the left hand, if I could play like this I'd be laughing, as I say, lots of bang for the buck, with hardly anything.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ308aOOX04
User avatar
Arpangel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:02 pm

And he pretty much invented a new genre singlehanded (and two fingered.....) And he couldn't read a note (or AFAIK even name the notes or chords).

Leading to this, which hints at what present day Django aficionado's can do with all four fingers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGlgF3Is6FQ
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10152
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby CS70 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:35 pm

Absolute love to both Django and Bireli and his friend..

It's kinda hard to get accustomed to use a pick on nylon strings :)
User avatar
CS70
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4226
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Oslo, Norway
Silver Spoon - Check out our latest video  and the FB page

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:18 pm

They are not using nylon strings*, Selmer style guitars have light gauge round wounds (with a unique silver wire winding) and an extra long 26.5" scale. They have a distinctive sound and are very loud as they were designed to be. They use super heavy picks too (mine are 3.5mm thick and simply don't flex).

*some Selmer/Macaferri style guitars do have nylons, Macaferri designed the first guitars in that style 'cos he was after a louder classical guitar.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10152
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby Tim Gillett » Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:05 am

Sam Spoons wrote:And he pretty much invented a new genre singlehanded (and two fingered.....) And he couldn't read a note (or AFAIK even name the notes or chords).

Leading to this, which hints at what present day Django aficionado's can do with all four fingers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGlgF3Is6FQ

And since he didn't record until after the fire we can only speculate on how Django would have played had it not been for the accident when he was only 18, and then his death at only 43.
Tim Gillett
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1827
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:00 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby Arpangel » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:19 am

Sam Spoons wrote:And he pretty much invented a new genre singlehanded (and two fingered.....) And he couldn't read a note (or AFAIK even name the notes or chords).

Leading to this, which hints at what present day Django aficionado's can do with all four fingers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGlgF3Is6FQ


My god, not being a guitar player myself, it always leaves me open mouthed when I hear playing like this, it's almost an impossibility to me.
Being a keyboard player is different, you only have to press a key, to get a sound, with a guitar it's not so easy, you have to really work at actually making a note and creating a tone.
User avatar
Arpangel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:26 am

I think you underestimate the skill involved in playing a keyboard well... ;)
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 24540
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Common tools that never get used?

Postby Arpangel » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:56 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:I think you underestimate the skill involved in playing a keyboard well... ;)

I knew someone would say that! But you know what I mean, if you take up the Sax for instance, it can be days before you even get a sound out of it, a lot of skill and work goes into just making the sound, not so with keyboard instruments, half of the work has been done for us in that respect.
User avatar
Arpangel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users