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How do they create the fake crowd on the premier league tv coverage live?

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Re: How do they create the fake crowd on the premier league tv coverage live?

Postby desmond » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:34 pm

forumuser840717 wrote:Whereas people who value function and reliabilty over looks in applications somewhat more pressured than podcasting tend to use the ugly one (or a few other equally visually uninspiring but effective alternatives). :beamup:

Oh well, I knew I was going to get one of these... :headbang:
No one was saying I (or anyone else) value looks more than functionality. :roll:

Of *course* production/live critical stuff needs to be clear and visually distinctive. But it can still be clear and perform that function without looking like it's been designed in the 80s for a 320x240 screen. I mean look at those bevels... :crazy:

Hey, if people don't care and it does the job, fine. But please don't think because it has to be designed for a particular purpose to favour usability and clarity etc means it also *has* to be ugly - it doesn't. Functionality doesn't preclude visual polish.

Now, Ferrago would not be my recommendation if you were running live sound effects for an Olympic broadcast, no. But not many of us are doing that, and for the uses I was citing, it's a great solution for Mac users from a great Mac development house that is designed well and works great (firstly and most importantly), and doesn't look like it was designed out of a low-resolution screen of duplo bricks. :wave:
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Re: How do they create the fake crowd on the premier league tv coverage live?

Postby forumuser840717 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:38 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote::bouncy: There speaks the voice of bitter experience!
Oh yes :tongue:

"Shhh.... did you hear that?" [sound of wind and twigs rattling against window...creaking floorboards]
"Quiet...there it is again"

Not.....

"Shhh....what was that?" [deafening sound of about 4 seconds worth of simultaneous fireworks, assorted farm animals and machinegun fire (none of which were in that show!) at about 110 dB (SPL)!]
"For Fuuuuuuuumm ... wow! ...... er... Quiet...there it is again"
"(ad lib) God I hope not!" ... audience roaring with laughter.

Great time to be the bloke standing at a mixer in the middle of a theatre full of people waiting for the no-name cue player software to re-start and wondering what it would come out with next :headbang:


And the hours of fun training presenters on hospital and community radio stations. Wondering whether they they'll finish staring blankly at the cartwall that they've zoomed out to show about 100 pretty but imposible to read and insufficiently clearly colour coded boxes as they look for their hastily added personalised cue blocks to trigger an ident/jingle/anything before the silence detector switches in the backup feed. Again.
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Re: How do they create the fake crowd on the premier league tv coverage live?

Postby desmond » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:55 pm

Ah, the horrors of dead air! :shock:

I bet Hugh has some stories... :lol:
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Re: How do they create the fake crowd on the premier league tv coverage live?

Postby forumuser840717 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:06 am

desmond wrote:Of *course* production/live critical stuff needs to be clear and visually distinctive. But it can still be clear and perform that function without looking like it's been designed in the 80s for a 320x240 screen. I mean look at those bevels... :crazy:

Hey, if people don't care and it does the job, fine. But please don't think because it has to be designed for a particular purpose to favour usability and clarity etc means it also *has* to be ugly - it doesn't. Functionality doesn't preclude visual polish.

Now, Ferrago would not be my recommendation if you were running live sound effects for an Olympic broadcast, no. But not many of us are doing that, and for the uses I was citing, it's a great solution for Mac users from a great Mac development house that is designed well and works great (firstly and most importantly), and doesn't look like it was designed out of a low-resolution screen of duplo bricks. :wave:

I do get what you're saying - I like a nicely designed and visually appealing interface as much as the next person and yes, most of the cartwall type systems I come across do have that ...er... vintage MS-DOS look but in a pressured environment one really only needs the essential info presented clearly, with the minimum distractions and reliable performance. If that can be done with the option of a degree of user customisation then so much the better. I guess that beauty is very much in the eye of the beholder but operationally I much prefer the look of SpotOn over Ferrago. Of course a lot of that could be down to familiarity.

They could hire a decent graphic designer and update the look of SpotOn. It wouldn't do any harm to look a bit more something that was bought in this century but it'd need to be someone who knows when to stop before they go over the top in adding 'polish' and make it less clear or strip away too much in a quest for 'clean and modern'. (Google rules on Android visual 'upgrades'!)

And I usually like to turn off the 'bevels' because I find that they don't really add anything other than more detail for the eye to take in.
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Re: How do they create the fake crowd on the premier league tv coverage live?

Postby Howdy Doody Time » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:32 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:I've don't have any specifics -- although I'll try and find out for you -- but I would imagine they'd be using something like Sigma Broadcast's SpotOn system.

That has been a pretty standard broadcast tool across the UK broadcasters for playing all manner of stings, jingles, effects, beds and anything else audio-related. And they'd have plenty of access to sound effects gathered from the actual stadiums to use.

Image

Usually operated with a touchscreen.

http://www.serialtech.com/pages/spoton.htm
http://www.sigmabroadcast.com/

Never understood why Apple don't do computer touchscreens. Except maybe they didn't want to develop software for any software platform they were about to ditch. Touchscreens are SO useful.
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Re: How do they create the fake crowd on the premier league tv coverage live?

Postby desmond » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:43 am

Have you seen Big Sur...?

There’s a reason they’ve started to move the menus just that bit further apart...
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Re: How do they create the fake crowd on the premier league tv coverage live?

Postby Arpangel » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:31 am

forumuser840717 wrote:Whereas people who value function and reliabilty over looks in applications somewhat more pressured than podcasting tend to use the ugly one (or a few other equally visually uninspiring but effective alternatives). :beamup:

After all, it's not as if the likes of SpotOn or Ovation or other such digital 'cart'/cue players in professional use look the way they do because their developers aren't capable of making something that looks prettier to appeal to podcasters; perhaps their client base actually likes and expects them to look the way they do. I know that when I need to trigger audio cues live in a theatrical or broadcast environment I'd much prefer a bunch of big, clear, obviously colour coded and clearly labelled blocks (which are a lot cleverer than they look) over a load of little pastel coloured graphic waveforms.

At the Beeb I had a chance to sit in, and help, on a few BBC London local radio shows, and Radio 1, it was amazing to see how it all worked together, seamlessly, it was like a ballet, and the equipment had to work and be reliable, all of the time. It didn’t matter what it looked like. Nothing was superfluous, everything was there for a reason, it was a real education for me, why are you using that mic.....because.....why those monitors....because.....why that software.....because, there were definite reasons for everything. It was amazing being in the studio mid show, the excitement and tension, and seeing it all just happen, the way the presenters worked with the engineers, the interaction.
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Re: How do they create the fake crowd on the premier league tv coverage live?

Postby Kwackman » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:34 am

forumuser840717 wrote: in a pressured environment one really only needs the essential info presented clearly, with the minimum distractions and reliable performance.
I remember the first time I saw a Studer A80 and couldn't believe how big the transport buttons were. It was explained that in live studios big, clear buttons were important. After several years using A80s, on more than one occasion I was very grateful Mr. Studer made those buttons large!
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Re: How do they create the fake crowd on the premier league tv coverage live?

Postby Rwkitch » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:16 am

There was an interview on Radio 5 about this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000kvd1

I think Ableton Live was mentioned. Although this may be for the noise heard in the stadium rather than on the TV, I'm not sure if they are the same.
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Re: How do they create the fake crowd on the premier league tv coverage live?

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:01 pm

Got to admit I find the crowd noise annoying.

I find the games without the noise really dead although I'm getting more used to it, but much prefer the fake atmosphere than none!
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Re: How do they create the fake crowd on the premier league tv coverage live?

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:02 pm

There was an interview on Radio 5 about this:

Seems to have expired, sadly.
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Re: How do they create the fake crowd on the premier league tv coverage live?

Postby MOF » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:23 pm

I presume the colour coding refers to the output fader each sound is routed to?
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Re: How do they create the fake crowd on the premier league tv coverage live?

Postby Arpangel » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:01 am

MOF wrote:I presume the colour coding refers to the output fader each sound is routed to?

I don’t think so, there was very little hardware on show in those studios I was in, in fact, the only big old school mixer I saw was in the room the interns were interviewed in! it was a big old 70's Chilton mixer. Levels etc were all set-up on the computer, there was a little engineers "controller" with a handful of faders, and studios like Radio 1 were one man operations most of the time.
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Re: How do they create the fake crowd on the premier league tv coverage live?

Postby Rwkitch » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:10 am

New BBC link:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000kfck

It's working now at least...starts at 59m 38s. The interview is with someone who does the noises for BT Sport, not the BBC.
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Re: How do they create the fake crowd on the premier league tv coverage live?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:50 am

Thanks for that-- so there you go. Similar idea to the one I postulated earlier, but with audio beds and spots run live from Ableton Live, with audio samples provided by EA Sports derived from their Fifa games...
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