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Adding noise.

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Adding noise.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:05 am
by Arpangel
I’ve been doing this a lot lately, it has many uses.
It can mask an annoying low level noise, it can glue things together, it can make a homogenous soundscape, it can make things sound more exciting, and like a lace veil over a woman’s face, in a similar way it can make music more beautiful and alluring.
It also turns the whole technical quality issue on its head, technical quality no longer becomes an issue, as you’re degrading things anyway.
This means you can now use anything to make your music as long as it makes a sound or records something, so now I use cassettes a lot, as they add some noise too, which you can shape and emphasise with EQ.
Noise on its own through effects can be interesting too, not in an obvious way, like plain white noise from a synthesiser, but something like pink noise put through unusual effects and added at a very low level to create a subtle underlying texture.
Even what we’re annoying hums and buzzes can be seen in a new light, depends what sort of music you make sure, but it’s worth experimenting with, if you haven’t done so already.

Re: Adding noise.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:59 am
by Martin Walker
I know what you mean Tony - sometimes it's the extra layer of 'grunge' that can turn a boring sound into something magical ;)

I also find it even more effective when placed against pristine sounds, as the contrast benefits them both.

It's even more fun if you find tools that let you alter the noise according to the dynamics of your musical signal.

Here's the fascinating freebie Noiiz Filter plug-in that does is: https://www.noiiz.com/plugins/3

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And here's another low-cost yet even more flexible Noize2 plug-in from Denise Audio that also works well for me: https://www.denise.io/store/denise/Noize2

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Great fun!


Martin

Re: Adding noise.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:03 am
by ef37a
For me?

THE WORLD HAS GONE MAD!!

Dave.

Re: Adding noise.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:53 am
by blinddrew
ef37a wrote:THE WORLD HAS GONE MAD!!
:bouncy: :bouncy:

How much of your career was spent trying to minimise noise? :D

Re: Adding noise.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:20 am
by ef37a
blinddrew wrote:
ef37a wrote:THE WORLD HAS GONE MAD!!
:bouncy: :bouncy:

How much of your career was spent trying to minimise noise? :D

Well mot mine exactly Drew but all of the audio industry!
The rot set in with the arrival of those Aphex 'Enhancers' !!

To be fair I LOVED Switched on Bach and I guess noise was a factor in the makeup of the sounds but the result did not SOUND 'noisy'! I am also old enough to remember the fans battling to get pop onto FM and someone from the BBC had the temerity to say "Pop music doesn't really warrant a high quality sound channel". Snobby b*****d!

Dave.

Re: Adding noise.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:10 am
by adrian_k
Haha well we wanted to hear the record noise more clearly, it was hidden by all that AM noise. :bouncy:

Re: Adding noise.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:56 pm
by ManFromGlass
I love the sound of an FM radio station that Is just a bit too far away so you can’t make out the material as it is as loud as the static. Radio static is an interesting noise.

Re: Adding noise.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:09 pm
by Martin Walker
ManFromGlass wrote:I love the sound of an FM radio station that Is just a bit too far away so you can’t make out the material as it is as loud as the static. Radio static is an interesting noise.

Indeed it is, and I specifically bought a Koma Field Kit (among many other features) for its shortwave antenna input, because shortwave sounds can be even more fascinating. Sadly I need a far better aerial, as currently ti doesn't pick up anything useful down here in Cornwall :(

I must have another go and see if I can improve my shortwave reception, especially if my Internet connection has finally repaired itself ;)


Martin

Re: Adding noise.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:44 pm
by ef37a
Bloody Americanism!

I often wonder how 'static' came to be the name for radio noise? By definition a static charge cannot generate any electro-magnetic energy.

Very confusingly people use the term in audio to mean anything from pre amp hiss to mains hum!

And, I was once told that about one spot per second of noise on a TV screen is a cosmic ray! (or is it from the Sun?)

Dave.

Re: Adding noise.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:07 pm
by Hugh Robjohns
Martin Walker wrote:Sadly I need a far better aerial, as currently ti doesn't pick up anything useful down here in Cornwall :(

That's one of the reasons they sited the Goonhilly radio station there! Minimal interference! :lol:

Re: Adding noise.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:10 pm
by Hugh Robjohns
Although it seems contradictory, I think there is something in the idea that a little noise can be helpful, and not just in audio terms.

Compare material shot on video and film. The grain 'noise' of film lends a quality which is absent on video, and which most people seem to find preferable. Dither for the eyes? :lol:

Re: Adding noise.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:06 pm
by ef37a
Ah! Don't mind me, moaning old git.

I do find as I get older, deafer and blinder I need clearer sources not just for pleasure but for basic understanding!

Anyone who reads the Radio Times letters page (remember those? Letters?) will know that the vast majority of complaints about arty-fart programming with pitch dark scenes and mumbled dialogue come from the older and sensory challenge public. You know, the ones that pay the bulk of the license fee but get sidelined by the BBC whizzkids who want to sweep the 'old' stuff away in favour of the latest 'iTech.

Dave.

Re: Adding noise.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:30 pm
by RichardT
ef37a wrote:Ah! Don't mind me, moaning old git.

I do find as I get older, deafer and blinder I need clearer sources not just for pleasure but for basic understanding!

Anyone who reads the Radio Times letters page (remember those? Letters?) will know that the vast majority of complaints about arty-fart programming with pitch dark scenes and mumbled dialogue come from the older and sensory challenge public. You know, the ones that pay the bulk of the license fee but get sidelined by the BBC whizzkids who want to sweep the 'old' stuff away in favour of the latest 'iTech.

Dave.

I wonder if the dark and mumbled dramas happen because the editors are using extremely high quality equipment and everything looks and sounds very clear to them?

Re: Adding noise.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:54 pm
by ef37a
RichardT wrote:
ef37a wrote:Ah! Don't mind me, moaning old git.

I do find as I get older, deafer and blinder I need clearer sources not just for pleasure but for basic understanding!

Anyone who reads the Radio Times letters page (remember those? Letters?) will know that the vast majority of complaints about arty-fart programming with pitch dark scenes and mumbled dialogue come from the older and sensory challenge public. You know, the ones that pay the bulk of the license fee but get sidelined by the BBC whizzkids who want to sweep the 'old' stuff away in favour of the latest 'iTech.

Dave.

I wonder if the dark and mumbled dramas happen because the editors are using extremely high quality equipment and everything looks and sounds very clear to them?

Yes, they have been told that time out of number. For sure, IF I sit in the dark, in the dead quiet and listen on my Tannoys at 70-80dB I can hear pretty much everything and the (incessant!) background music even makes SOME kind of sense. I can see as well, once dark adapted but people don't WATCH telly like that! We watch cinema like that.

Dave.

Re: Adding noise.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:29 pm
by Hugh Robjohns
I don't train BBC staff anymore (matter of policy!) but i was involved in a lot of BBC training in the run up to the launch of HDTV and for quite a few years afterwards. My input was covering all aspects of multichannel sound production, but I sat through the presentations from my colleagues on cameras, lighting, editing, QC and so forth. Most of it was for technical staff, obviously, but we also did a lot of courses specifically for production staff, making them aware of the possibilities and traps.

In my experience, the technical 'whizz kids' are usually well aware of what I shall call 'domestic compatibility' issues, and routinely point out potential problems before they become real problems.... But it seems depressingly common for production staff to ignore that advice, often through a combination of a lack of technical training and understanding, ambitions of Hollywood film epic dire tion, and general god-delusions!

I know for a fact that the mumbled dialogue in the Jamaica Inn series was flagged up by the sound recordist during on set blocking and the actual takes, and again by the editors during the editing, and again by the dubbing mixer in the dubbing... All ignored.