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Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

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Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:49 pm
by Dr Huge Longjohns
So I just went into an old Logic project to tweak a mix I did a while ago but a couple of the effects plugins I used on the mix I no longer have. Not a big issue as I just replaced them with equivalents but made me wonder whether anybody bothers to bounce individual tracks within a mix for archive purposes so the fx are rendered with their track?

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:08 pm
by desmond
For important stuff, yes - I'll generally have the raw audio bounce, and an FX-rendered bounce if the FX is important and must be preserved, particularly if it requires third-party components that might not be available in the future.

You basically have to think "Ok, if none of my stuff was available years in the future when I'm looking at this project, what would I be able to recover and use and how would it affect being able to do what I would need to do with it".

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:12 pm
by blinddrew
The facetious answer would be that it's hard enough finding anyone to listen to the published mix let alone any archive stems... ;)
But in general, no. Once I've got something 'finished' I never tend to go back to it. Most of my stuff is built around audio tracks, or occasionally played-in midi, so as long as wav files and midi files exist I could always rebuild from scratch if I wanted to.

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:39 pm
by RichardT
I ifeel that I should but I don't. The risk I guess is of losing access to a plugin, which has happened to me in the past but not for a long time.

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:53 pm
by James Perrett
This is one of the reasons why I stick to using the built-in Reaper effects and just a small selection of third party plug-ins. I'm fairly confident that I'll be able to use all the plug-ins on any future machine as they are all licensed via portable serial numbers rather than any fancy licensing scheme that relies on being tied to one machine. The one exception is Izotope RX where I generally render a processed file anyway.

I think Reaper counts as my 4th DAW. I still have my previous DAW (Adobe Audition) installed so I can go back to sessions from about 1998 onwards although I relied on Waves plug-ins for earlier sessions which I can no longer use. It was the experience of being left high and dry with Waves that lead to my avoidance of third party plug-ins that use anything more onerous than a simple serial number.

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:25 pm
by Dr Huge Longjohns
t was the experience of being left high and dry with Waves

Yep, the plugs in question were Waves ones. I've totally had it with Waves and their stupid update\licensing scheme etc hence them not working.

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:33 pm
by Martin Walker
Yep, I abandoned Waves some years back, largely because any time I wanted to use one of them I ended up going in circles round updates and dongle issues.

The only one I still hanker after using is their S1 Stereo Imager.


Martin

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:47 pm
by Arpangel
blinddrew wrote:The facetious answer would be that it's hard enough finding anyone to listen to the published mix let alone any archive stems... ;)
But in general, no. Once I've got something 'finished' I never tend to go back to it. Most of my stuff is built around audio tracks, or occasionally played-in midi, so as long as wav files and midi files exist I could always rebuild from scratch if I wanted to.

I’m a bit more rash, I never keep any finished stuff in my DAW, it all gets deleted, stereo stuff, and multitrack.

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:06 pm
by Dr Huge Longjohns
The only one I still hanker after using is their S1 Stereo Imager.

Don't know precisely what Waves S1 does but the free Ozone one is excellent if you haven't already got it...https://www.izotope.com/en/products/free-audio-plug-ins.html

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:43 pm
by James Perrett
Martin Walker wrote:The only one I still hanker after using is their S1 Stereo Imager.

The JS Stereo Field Manipulator comes close although it doesn't look quite as good.

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:50 pm
by The Elf
I render EVERYTHING. Even one week down the line you may need to re-do something and you can't be sure you will be able to.

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:01 am
by Martin Walker
Dr Huge Longjohns wrote:
The only one I still hanker after using is their S1 Stereo Imager.

Don't know precisely what Waves S1 does but the free Ozone one is excellent if you haven't already got it...https://www.izotope.com/en/products/free-audio-plug-ins.html

Thanks Huge - I do already have that one, but it's primarily a stereo width enhancer. The special feature of the Waves S1 Imager for me was its Blumlein shuffling, as I described in this SOS feature:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... c-plug-ins

"S1 also has a very useful Shuffle control that lets you further increase stereo width at lower frequencies (typically below 600Hz, as set by the associated Frequency control). This compensates for the fact that the ear is less sensitive to stereo bass effects, so you can either use Shuffle to sharpen stereo imaging in an existing mix, while leaving its width unaltered, or further widen the bass end, for a feeling of increased spaciousness at the expense of less precise imaging. Shuffling only affects non-central sounds, so you can use it to widen the bass end of other instruments in the mix without disturbing the level or imaging of centrally panned kick drum and bass guitars (this should keep the 'mono bass is tighter' camp happy)."


James Perrett wrote:The JS Stereo Field Manipulator comes close although it doesn't look quite as good.

Reaper to the rescue once again! Just explored that one, and it does work very well for the Rotation and Symmetry aspects of the S1 Imager.

However, I also discovered the JS Stereo Enhancer, which DOES offer the Width Low and Crossover frequency of the S1 Imager, as well as a Width High control, so now I'm very happy :thumbup:

Thanks both!


Martin

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:36 am
by James Perrett
Martin Walker wrote:However, I also discovered the JS Stereo Enhancer, which DOES offer the Width Low and Crossover frequency of the S1 Imager, as well as a Width High control, so now I'm very happy :thumbup:

I've never really explored the Blumlein Shuffling that S1 offered - maybe it is time that I did!

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:32 am
by blinddrew
I use imager quite often but it is quite resource-heavy. I'll check out the JS ones as they tend to be pretty easy on the old CPU. :thumbup:

Re: Do you render/bounce individual mix tracks/stems for archive/safety?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:34 am
by Dr Huge Longjohns
I render EVERYTHING. Even one week down the line you may need to re-do something and you can't be sure you will be able to.

Do you keep both, then? The rendered and the raw tracks with plugs?