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How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

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How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby csarami@ncsu.edu » Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:41 am

Hi,

Let's say you have dry stems ( all mono) of violin 1, 2, viola, cello and harpsicord. Different instrument take turns ( starting with Harpsicord and cello).

Do you use Pan automation to bring solo instrument to the center or try to mimic the stage like a string quartet. Where do you place hapsicord? Cello?

Would be great if you mention your workflow as well.
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby resistorman » Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:52 am

My personal preference has always been to create a virtual space where the listener has the best seat in the house.
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby csarami@ncsu.edu » Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:19 am

resistorman wrote:My personal preference has always been to create a virtual space where the listener has the best seat in the house.
I suppose you mean you go with actual stage.
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby TomChimera » Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:35 am

To imitate realism probably a convolution reverb like Audioease plugins, there are many free good sounding impulses like Open AIR Library,
and would try to mimic their positions in the chosen location

If it doesn't have to be ultra realistic, anything that sounds good :)
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby The Elf » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:58 am

I certainly wouldn't be considering using any automation at all - once set I would leave the pan controls well alone!

So set up a spread that pleases you ear, add a reverb to suit (I'd probably use multiple pre-delays to simulate front-to-back depth) and that would be about it.
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby RichardT » Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:06 am

Have a look at this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JvNQLJ1_HQ0

You can mimic this with panning.

Do not move the positions of the players once you’ve set them!
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby CS70 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:37 am

What the Elf says.. If it's a classical composition, assuming it's well recorded, you just raise the faders, pan the way that the instruments or sections were, add reverb if necessary and that's it.

You don't normally see the viola players stand up and walk around during a concert so automating the pan would be bizarre. But hey, maybe you're in to something! :D
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:31 am

csarami@ncsu.edu wrote:Do you use Pan automation to bring solo instrument to the center or try to mimic the stage like a string quartet. Where do you place hapsicord? Cello?

You're the producer/engineer. In the absence of a conductor or the performers it's entirely your creative decision. You can do whatever you like...

...But conventionally, most producers faced with this kind of thing would probably try to recreate the sound and staging of a typical small chamber orchestra. And it's rare for members of an orchestra to walk centre stage to play their line and then go back to their seats...
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby csarami@ncsu.edu » Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:42 am

RichardT wrote:Have a look at this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JvNQLJ1_HQ0

You can mimic this with panning.

Do not move the positions of the players once you’ve set them!

I'd like to hear this [ur=https://youtu.be/JvNQLJ1_HQ0?t=48l]first violin playing upward passage[/url] clear. It gets masked by others. At least with my iMac speakers.

We have three choices to hear this, or any other prominent musical elements ( of course subjective), that is not heard clearly. I suppose one should may use a bit of

- volume automation
- Eq automation
- Pan automation

of course this depends on genre and if the music is played in a video of actual musicians sitting there and of course taste. For instance if video is zooming on an instrument, one might consider zooming.
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby Tim Gillett » Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:29 pm

csarami@ncsu.edu wrote:
RichardT wrote:Have a look at this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JvNQLJ1_HQ0

You can mimic this with panning.

Do not move the positions of the players once you’ve set them!

I'd like to hear this [ur=https://youtu.be/JvNQLJ1_HQ0?t=48l]first violin playing upward passage[/url] clear. It gets masked by others. At least with my iMac speakers.

We have three choices to hear this, or any other prominent musical elements ( of course subjective), that is not heard clearly. I suppose one should may use a bit of

- volume automation
- Eq automation
- Pan automation

of course this depends on genre and if the music is played in a video of actual musicians sitting there and of course taste. For instance if video is zooming on an instrument, one might consider zooming.

Yes instruments do mask each other but playing a stereo recording back in mono or approaching mono (as could be happening on your laptop) can greatly change the balance. It's a common problem, and this video seems to illustrate it well. I'm not sure that the techniques you mention will really solve that. Maybe it used to be more common to make sure that stereo recordings were also reasonably mono compatible.

Have you listened to this same performance on good headphones or stereo speakers?
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby BJG145 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:52 pm

If I was listening to a piece of music on headphones and the instruments started moving about I would scream and tear them off.
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby desmond » Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:21 pm

BJG145 wrote:If I was listening to a piece of music on headphones and the instruments started moving about I would scream and tear them off.

Ah, so that was *you* on the bus this morning...

Wondered what that was all about... :lol:
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby Aural Reject » Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:41 pm

BJG145 wrote:If I was listening to a piece of music on headphones and the instruments started moving about I would scream and tear them off.

It's disconcerting enough when it happens because you've cocked up something in the recording and you get things moving in the image...quite often only for certain notes or volumes (or both)...but to do it deliberately....not for me!
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:46 pm

Has all the hallmarks of a college homework question, no?
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby ManFromGlass » Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:08 pm

If I was a modern mixer with popular sensibilities I would start with at least a dozen tracks for each instrument all carefully compressed, side-chained, multi band eq’d and gated so each note was pristine and heard above the others. It would take me a few days to make sure every note had the right timbre and balance against the others as I would need to move some notes by a few samples so they line up correctly with all the others in the phrases. Depending on the make of the instruments I may also need to transpose the piece up or down so they really speak the way they should, and also because the sub tones I’ll lay in under the harpsichord and lower cello parts gel better in certain keys.
I’d then send them through a healthy chain of the outboard gear to add that elusive fairydust and analogue charm we all love but can’t define.
I would probably need another 10 tracks for reverb and eq on that reverb so everything sits in the most wonderful space before bringing it back in for just a slight recompress and warming up with some of the modeled vintage plugs. All this in tandem with feedback from the producer and the record company who all have their 2 cents worth of suggested tweaks. And then - viola - the masterwork is ready for the YouTube because music does not exist unless there is a YouTube.
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