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How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby The Elf » Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:15 pm

Dr Huge Longjohns wrote:Has all the hallmarks of a college homework question, no?
+1

Especially as he's now searching for the audio files to do this!
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:15 pm

Aural Reject wrote:It's disconcerting enough when it happens because you've cocked up something in the recording and you get things moving in the image...

Reminds me of the early days of Stereo TV broadcasting in the BBC, which happened to coincide with my long stint as a trainer of such things.

I had this fabulous demo video of an episode of Neighbours from when they first started in stereo. Like most people, they were using single cameras and a stereo fishpole mic for outdoor work, and my clip involved a scene with two people arguing outside a shopping complex building with a small fountain in the background.

The soundies had been told to always orientate the stereo mic so it was aligned with the axis of the camera... Which obviously seemed sensible to someone... :think:

The establishing shot had the two people facing off at each other eight feet apart, left and right of the image, with the fountain in the background between them. And the stereo sound image was exactly as it looked... Voices half-left and half-right, and the fountain central. So that was all fine...

But as the argument got going they then cut into individual closeups, of course, which were obviously shot separately. Naturally, to maintain the right eye-lines, the camera was repositioned to give viewing lines closer to the other character... and the stereo mic obviously moved with the camera.

So for the left-hand character the voice was now central and the fountain was hard right. ...and for the right-hand character the voice was central and the fountain hard left.

So when the scene was cut together later in the edit suite, after the opening shot we had a succession of intercut individual closeups, all with the voices dead centre to match the image, but the background fountain was doing this amazing bounce, leaping from one speaker to the other....

Oops! Classic stereo TV sound gathering cockups 101.... :-)
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby csarami@ncsu.edu » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:02 pm

The Elf wrote:
Dr Huge Longjohns wrote:Has all the hallmarks of a college homework question, no?
+1

Especially as he's now searching for the audio files to do this!

Definitely, it is a basic question. I am not certainly saying it is as important as Newton's :P "after watching an apple fall and asking why the apple fell straight down, rather than sideways or even upward."

I asked this because this is a canon from baroque with no dynamic markings and also about the current composition that I am writing.

But with all the instrument playing and taking turns; as I read above (knew it) there are different ideas and approaches to mix this piece as any other piece. And why not breaking the rules and say having first violin and cello in the center .

Asking for stems was for trying different mixing approaches in my spare time and compare.

Thank you all for your time.
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby BJG145 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:43 pm

csarami@ncsu.edu wrote:Asking for stems was for trying different mixing approaches in my spare time and compare.

My favorite source of individual audio tracks for pop projects is karaoke-version. I tried Googling for individual Classical audio parts but couldn't find anything similar. The closest I got was the Hal Leonard play-along series and the Canon In D Instrument Pack but it's thin on detail and I'm not sure if this is it or not.

I was also thinking it would be feasible to download a MIDI version and run it through some decent plugins...but obviously a lot more hassle for a lot less quality. I don't know if anyone offers the service of providing individual audio tracks for Classical music (though maybe they should).
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby RichardT » Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:04 pm

ManFromGlass wrote:If I was a modern mixer with popular sensibilities I would start with at least a dozen tracks for each instrument all carefully compressed, side-chained, multi band eq’d and gated so each note was pristine and heard above the others. It would take me a few days to make sure every note had the right timbre and balance against the others as I would need to move some notes by a few samples so they line up correctly with all the others in the phrases. Depending on the make of the instruments I may also need to transpose the piece up or down so they really speak the way they should, and also because the sub tones I’ll lay in under the harpsichord and lower cello parts gel better in certain keys.
I’d then send them through a healthy chain of the outboard gear to add that elusive fairydust and analogue charm we all love but can’t define.
I would probably need another 10 tracks for reverb and eq on that reverb so everything sits in the most wonderful space before bringing it back in for just a slight recompress and warming up with some of the modeled vintage plugs. All this in tandem with feedback from the producer and the record company who all have their 2 cents worth of suggested tweaks. And then - viola - the masterwork is ready for the YouTube because music does not exist unless there is a YouTube.

:lol:
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby csarami@ncsu.edu » Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:42 pm

[quote="BJG145"][/quote]

Thank you @BJG145 This is a very good midi played with VST sample library. Stems are not dry and have lots of reverb. Great to know.
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby IAA » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:36 pm

Most good ensembles, conducted, manage balance very well, in part because they are good musicians and play to differentiate what the composer was trying to achieve. Not withstanding room issues and mic placement (and I’ve heard top class ensembles in less than perfect spaces) , this is one of those instances where less is probably more!
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby CS70 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:53 pm

ManFromGlass wrote:If I was a modern mixer with popular sensibilities I would start with at least a dozen tracks for each instrument all carefully compressed, side-chained, multi band eq’d and gated so each note was pristine and heard above the others. It would take me a few days to make sure every note had the right timbre and balance against the others as I would need to move some notes by a few samples so they line up correctly with all the others in the phrases. Depending on the make of the instruments I may also need to transpose the piece up or down so they really speak the way they should, and also because the sub tones I’ll lay in under the harpsichord and lower cello parts gel better in certain keys.
I’d then send them through a healthy chain of the outboard gear to add that elusive fairydust and analogue charm we all love but can’t define.
I would probably need another 10 tracks for reverb and eq on that reverb so everything sits in the most wonderful space before bringing it back in for just a slight recompress and warming up with some of the modeled vintage plugs. All this in tandem with feedback from the producer and the record company who all have their 2 cents worth of suggested tweaks. And then - viola - the masterwork is ready for the YouTube because music does not exist unless there is a YouTube.

You forgot "Melodyne the s**t out of each stem to recreate the original temperament"! :D
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby CS70 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:03 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Oops! Classic stereo TV sound gathering cockups 101.... :-)

I remember as a kid watching some old show that had these kind of jumps and the fun thing is that nobody found it strange.. I mean, watching stuff moving on a black and white Brionvega Volans 17" (pictured below) was obviously something so artificial (and looking nothing like the real thing) that these sound issues were simply taken as part of the performance. To the point that if I watched the same movies today, I would expect them!

Incidentally, the TV was throw away in 1986 for a modern and larger color TV. I was 16 and I had no idea of the icon of design that it was (nobody had of course) but to this day I incredibly regret that my family did not keep it.. I would love to have one in my house.

Image
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby DC-Choppah » Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:32 pm

This song has been done to death. So I would do something different and try to make it sound fresh.

Run the dry tracks through a pitch to MIDI converter first to get the MIDI notes out.

Then use the MIDI tracks to drive some unnatural sounding vocal instruments - something weird and slightly terrifying. Then mix in the original audio of the instruments but use the Morph plugin to blend them together musically. Mult 6 copies of each track and modulate each track slightly differently to thicken all the parts up, building thickness as the song progresses.

Run each of these instruments through its own non-linear reverb placing each in its own unique unnatural space. But send them all through a single concert hall to glue it together.

Pitch bend and time warp the whole song using automation synched to AC/DC Back and Black, subtly, just a little so you don't really hear it but it makes the song breath musically.

Then speed the whole thing up 14% and add a swing grooved electro-swing drum groove at the new tempo. Derive the tempo track from the swing groove and re-align the instrument tracks to this groove to give them all swing. Make the alignment tight and unnatural sounding like some soulless, yet hard-grooving robots have played this.

Then add 78-record style scratches and some wobble from a slightly offset turntable. Then add an ultra-clean mono, synth bass part (that doesn't wobble or reverb).

Blast the mix buss through a hard hitting limiter and crank it up. Make it sound boss on an iphone speaker.

An electro-swing / nightcore version of Pachalbel Canon in D.

Seriously I can hear this!
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby RichardT » Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:25 pm

DC-Choppah wrote:This song has been done to death. So I would do something different and try to make it sound fresh.

Run the dry tracks through a pitch to MIDI converter first to get the MIDI notes out.

Then use the MIDI tracks to drive some unnatural sounding vocal instruments - something weird and slightly terrifying. Then mix in the original audio of the instruments but use the Morph plugin to blend them together musically. Mult 6 copies of each track and modulate each track slightly differently to thicken all the parts up, building thickness as the song progresses.

Run each of these instruments through its own non-linear reverb placing each in its own unique unnatural space. But send them all through a single concert hall to glue it together.

Pitch bend and time warp the whole song using automation synched to AC/DC Back and Black, subtly, just a little so you don't really hear it but it makes the song breath musically.

Then speed the whole thing up 14% and add a swing grooved electro-swing drum groove at the new tempo. Derive the tempo track from the swing groove and re-align the instrument tracks to this groove to give them all swing. Make the alignment tight and unnatural sounding like some soulless, yet hard-grooving robots have played this.

Then add 78-record style scratches and some wobble from a slightly offset turntable. Then add an ultra-clean mono, synth bass part (that doesn't wobble or reverb).

Blast the mix buss through a hard hitting limiter and crank it up. Make it sound boss on an iphone speaker.

An electro-swing / nightcore version of Pachalbel Canon in D.

Seriously I can hear this!

Aaaagh, make it stop!
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby ManFromGlass » Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:50 am

The original poster suggests breaking the rules so I think we are only getting started!
:bouncy:

Tons of creativity in these forumites!
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby resistorman » Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:24 am

Wedding musicians around here call it Taco Bell’s canon...
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby csarami@ncsu.edu » Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:17 am

ManFromGlass wrote:The original poster suggests breaking the rules so I think we are only getting started!
:bouncy:

Tons of creativity in these forumites!

Hmm... If you are talking about panning automation, this is not considered breaking rules at least in the non-classical music.

Of course, again there could be many good sounding mixes given the same collection of stems.
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Re: How would you mix Pachelbel's Canon in D in a DAW

Postby nathanscribe » Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:50 am

Perhaps not directly useful for the original question, but in case anyone is interested, there's the Brian Eno way to do things...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPesTx4yb3g
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