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Waves plugins - Mono or Stereo?

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Waves plugins - Mono or Stereo?

Postby dehaan » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:20 pm

I want to buy the waves doubler - because I want to make my mono vocals sound stereo.
Waves plugins have mono and stereo versions so I dunno which to use.

If my original vocals are in mono.
And I apply the waves doubler.
- Do I use the mono version - because its recorded in Mono?
- Do I use the stereo version - because I want it to BECOME stereo.

And Then - After the vocals are processed with the waves doubler - they are Stereo
If I want to use another waves plugin (e.g. reverb) on the same track, after the doubler
- Do I use the mono version - because the original recording was mono?
- Do I use stereo version - because the track has become mono due to the waves doubler?
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Re: Waves plugins - Mono or Stereo?

Postby desmond » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:25 pm

I don't know what DAW you use, but if your source audio is mono, and you want it to *become* stereo (because you want doubled vocals panned to opposite sides), you want a mono to stereo version.

In Logic, you'd insert a "Mono -> Stereo" version of the plugin on the mono track, and after the plugin, the channel becomes stereo at that point.

I assume other DAWs will have something similar, they all do more or less the same things.
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Re: Waves plugins - Mono or Stereo?

Postby ManFromGlass » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:44 am

Good question about the reverb. I would suggest, as you aren’t going to break anything, so try the verb on one at a time and see which sound you like best or works best for your song
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Re: Waves plugins - Mono or Stereo?

Postby CS70 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:52 am

dehaan wrote:I want to buy the waves doubler - because I want to make my mono vocals sound stereo.
Waves plugins have mono and stereo versions so I dunno which to use.

If my original vocals are in mono.
And I apply the waves doubler.
- Do I use the mono version - because its recorded in Mono?
- Do I use the stereo version - because I want it to BECOME stereo.

And Then - After the vocals are processed with the waves doubler - they are Stereo
If I want to use another waves plugin (e.g. reverb) on the same track, after the doubler
- Do I use the mono version - because the original recording was mono?
- Do I use stereo version - because the track has become mono due to the waves doubler?

If you want your vocals to sound stereo, use the mono-to-stereo version on a stereo track.

There's always three things conceptually involved in a DAW (some DAWs have defaults or do some magic on this, so you may or may not see all of this in all of them):

- the track interleave type (stereo or mono)
- the audio signal nature (stereo or mono)
- the effect input and output (stereo or mono)

The audio is, of course, mono (one channel) or stereo (two channels, L and R).

The track type controls how the audio signal is handled when placed on a track: if the track is mono, mono signals will stay mono and stereo signals will be summed up; if the track is stereo, mono signals will usually be "stereoized" by creating L/R channels will identical content, and stereo signals will stay how they are (the DAW's pan law usually affects the levels).

For effects, it's a bit more tricky since it really depends on what the plugin developer decided to do. When put on a stereo track, many mono plugins simply use one channel in input and output to one channel, resulting in only one channel of the stereo track to be "effected", and/or one become silent if placed on a stereo track. But the developer may decide to be helpful and decide for example to have a two channels output also on a "mono" version of the plug, so that the (mono) output is duplicated on both.

Note also that if you record a mono input on a stereo track, some DAWs may try to be helpful and duly duplicate the input on two channels, resulting in a dual mono recording.. which makes things fun when you use a mono plugin on them :)

Not sure what Waves Doubler do, I have it but haven't used it recently - but basically:

- set up a stereo track
- import your mono vocal
- use the stereo ("mono to stereo") version of the plug
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Re: Waves plugins - Mono or Stereo?

Postby Fishnish » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:01 am

I usually set a stereo version of the doubler100% wet so it gives only the doubles not the dry vocal, put it on a stereo FX track and send the mono vocal to it. That way I can easily automate or mute the doubler as required. The reverb goes on another send so I can send any amout of any vocal track (including the doubler) into it. All the vox tracks including the send FX then go to a group vocal channel .

But there's a multiude of ways to do this depending on your intended result. For me, the Waves Doubler works best as a stereo effect though.
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Re: Waves plugins - Mono or Stereo?

Postby dehaan » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:32 pm

CS70 wrote:
dehaan wrote:I want to buy the waves doubler - because I want to make my mono vocals sound stereo.
Waves plugins have mono and stereo versions so I dunno which to use.

If my original vocals are in mono.
And I apply the waves doubler.
- Do I use the mono version - because its recorded in Mono?
- Do I use the stereo version - because I want it to BECOME stereo.

And Then - After the vocals are processed with the waves doubler - they are Stereo
If I want to use another waves plugin (e.g. reverb) on the same track, after the doubler
- Do I use the mono version - because the original recording was mono?
- Do I use stereo version - because the track has become mono due to the waves doubler?

If you want your vocals to sound stereo, use the mono-to-stereo version on a stereo track.

There's always three things conceptually involved in a DAW (some DAWs have defaults or do some magic on this, so you may or may not see all of this in all of them):

- the track interleave type (stereo or mono)
- the audio signal nature (stereo or mono)
- the effect input and output (stereo or mono)

The audio is, of course, mono (one channel) or stereo (two channels, L and R).

The track type controls how the audio signal is handled when placed on a track: if the track is mono, mono signals will stay mono and stereo signals will be summed up; if the track is stereo, mono signals will usually be "stereoized" by creating L/R channels will identical content, and stereo signals will stay how they are (the DAW's pan law usually affects the levels).

For effects, it's a bit more tricky since it really depends on what the plugin developer decided to do. When put on a stereo track, many mono plugins simply use one channel in input and output to one channel, resulting in only one channel of the stereo track to be "effected", and/or one become silent if placed on a stereo track. But the developer may decide to be helpful and decide for example to have a two channels output also on a "mono" version of the plug, so that the (mono) output is duplicated on both.

Note also that if you record a mono input on a stereo track, some DAWs may try to be helpful and duly duplicate the input on two channels, resulting in a dual mono recording.. which makes things fun when you use a mono plugin on them :)

Not sure what Waves Doubler do, I have it but haven't used it recently - but basically:

- set up a stereo track
- import your mono vocal
- use the stereo ("mono to stereo") version of the plug


Thanks, I use FL studio. I don't know how to set up a stereo track/channel. When you say import your vocal I assume you mean do it in parallel like #1 below. Below is the emal I sent to Waves just now.


Email:
●I want to use the waves doubler - to make my mono vocals sound stereo. 
Waves plugins have "mono", "stereo" and "mono to stereo" versions.
I use FL studio.

●Waves gave 2 options:
#1. Parallel - "You can create an FX bus and insert the Doubler "Stereo" plugin. 
Next, send the mono vocal track to the FX bus."

#2. Insert - "You can also insert the plugin on the mono vocal track.
Insert the Doubler "Mono to the Stereo" component."

● Question
Why must I use "Mono to Stereo" version for #2 but "stereo" version for #1. It's the exact same mono signal in both cases... In #1 the only difference is that the mono signal has been sent to another insert. 
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Re: Waves plugins - Mono or Stereo?

Postby desmond » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:30 pm

dehaan wrote:●Waves gave 2 options:
#1. Parallel - "You can create an FX bus and insert the Doubler "Stereo" plugin. 
Next, send the mono vocal track to the FX bus."

#2. Insert - "You can also insert the plugin on the mono vocal track.
Insert the Doubler "Mono to the Stereo" component." 

#2 is what I suggested above, and is the simplest way.

dehaan wrote:● Question
Why must I use "Mono to Stereo" version for #2 but "stereo" version for #1. It's the exact same mono signal in both cases... In #1 the only difference is that the mono signal has been sent to another insert. 

Because in 2, you are converting a mono signal into a stereo one (and essentially mixing in the dry mono with the plugin stereo doubles mixed within the plugin).

In #1, you are just sending a copy of the mono signal to a stereo bus with a stereo plugin on it. The original track (your dry vocal) remains mono, and the stereo bus contains the (wet) stereo output of Doubler.
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Re: Waves plugins - Mono or Stereo?

Postby dehaan » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:48 pm

desmond wrote:
dehaan wrote:●Waves gave 2 options:
#1. Parallel - "You can create an FX bus and insert the Doubler "Stereo" plugin. 
Next, send the mono vocal track to the FX bus."

#2. Insert - "You can also insert the plugin on the mono vocal track.
Insert the Doubler "Mono to the Stereo" component." 

#2 is what I suggested above, and is the simplest way.

dehaan wrote:● Question
Why must I use "Mono to Stereo" version for #2 but "stereo" version for #1. It's the exact same mono signal in both cases... In #1 the only difference is that the mono signal has been sent to another insert. 

Because in 2, you are converting a mono signal into a stereo one (and essentially mixing in the dry mono with the plugin stereo doubles mixed within the plugin).

In #1, you are just sending a copy of the mono signal to a stereo bus with a stereo plugin on it. The original track (your dry vocal) remains mono, and the stereo bus contains the (wet) stereo output of Doubler.


According to the FL studio manual:
"Mono vs Stereo - The FL Studio Insert Mixer Tracks are stereo. To hear a Mixer Track in mono, turn the Stereo separation control as indicated above, to mono (fully clockwise)."

So if all the mixer tracks are stereo by default,
when I assign my vocals (recorded in mono) to an imsert on the mixer track - the mono vocals would by default be on a "stereo" mixer track right? So both #1 and #2 happen on a stereo mixer track. So shouldnt they use the same plugin version? They are both a mono signal on a stereo track...
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