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Long, dark reverb and how to use it?

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Re: Long, dark reverb and how to use it?

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:52 pm
by Arpangel
manwilde wrote:Diamada Galas has been sleeping on my music collection for some time now, time to eventually check her out. Thanks a lot for the hints!.
One thing that I find limiting loading impulses in Reaverb is not having the choice of adjusting early and late reflections. Is this so in all IR loaders?.
Of course you can do that in many algorithcimc reverbs, but I don´t get along well with VoS EpicVerb (and it´s not true stereo) and I haven´t worked enough yet with Voxengo OldSkoolVerb. Those are the two algorithmic reverbs that allow adjusting the reflections that I have.

Strange isn’t it, EpicVerb is my all time fave software verb.
Very spacey, floaty, very Lexicon.

Re: Long, dark reverb and how to use it?

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:03 pm
by manwilde
I used to use it more in the past, but stopped doing it so often when I found out that panning the send from a track to the verb didn´t have any effect on the recieving end...

Re: Long, dark reverb and how to use it?

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:15 am
by Arpangel
manwilde wrote:I used to use it more in the past, but stopped doing it so often when I found out that panning the send from a track to the verb didn´t have any effect on the recieving end...

If the source was stereo I’d normally just ad a bit of verb via a send/return, so I didn’t notice it, in fact, I don’t think I ever used it "straight through"

Re: Long, dark reverb and how to use it?

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:29 pm
by manwilde
If the source was stereo I’d normally just ad a bit of verb via a send/return, so I didn’t notice it, in fact, I don’t think I ever used it "straight through"

And that´s how I normally use it as well, but as I said if you pan the send from the dry track to the reverb (or the recieve in the reverb track) EpicVerb still sounds the same as if that pan was dead center... Lately I do this more often, specially with rhythm guitars.

Re: Long, dark reverb and how to use it?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:04 pm
by Arpangel
manwilde wrote:
If the source was stereo I’d normally just ad a bit of verb via a send/return, so I didn’t notice it, in fact, I don’t think I ever used it "straight through"

And that´s how I normally use it as well, but as I said if you pan the send from the dry track to the reverb (or the recieve in the reverb track) EpicVerb still sounds the same as if that pan was dead center... Lately I do this more often, specially with rhythm guitars.

Weird, although I can’t say it’s been a problem.

Re: Long, dark reverb and how to use it?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:47 pm
by Hugh Robjohns
manwilde wrote:... if you pan the send from the dry track to the reverb (or the recieve in the reverb track) EpicVerb still sounds the same as if that pan was dead center....

Most reverbs work this way. They sum the left and right inputs to mono, and the generate a stereo reverb from that. In most cases this is a perfectly acceptable compromise, especially when using simulations of large spaces.

If you imagine a soloist in a big hall, the character of the reverb really wouldn't change noticeably if they stood in the middle of the stage or moved over to one side, largely because they are never very close to the room boundaries.

However, when emulating small rooms that is arguably less likely to be the case, because the sound source will tend to be much closer to the boundaries when placed hard left/right. Therefore the early reflections from those boundaries will usually be substantially different to the left and right, and thus play a much more significant role in shapimg the stereo image of the reverb. In other words, the source position in the room will alter the generation of early reflections in the left and right rever outputs more obviously.

For this reason, some reverbs have 'true stereo' algorithms, so that the generation of early reflections is controlled and affected by the input source panning, which results in a more natural room sound, especially for small rooms.

This 'true stereo' option typically applies to and appears more in reverbs based on the ray-tracing technique, rather than conventional algorithmic or convolution types.

Re: Long, dark reverb and how to use it?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:25 pm
by Arpangel
Hugh Robjohns wrote:Most reverbs work this way. They sum the left and right inputs to mono, and the generate a stereo reverb from that. In most cases this is a perfectly acceptable compromise, especially when using simulations of large

That’s what I thought.
I’ve had a few hardware Lexicons that behaved like this.

Re: Long, dark reverb and how to use it?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:38 pm
by manwilde
Hugh Robjohns wrote:However, when emulating small rooms that is arguably less likely to be the case, because the sound source will tend to be much closer to the boundaries when placed hard left/right. Therefore the early reflections from those boundaries will usually be substantially different to the left and right, and thus play a much more significant role in shapimg the stereo image of the reverb.

Yes, sorry for not being clear enough, that´s exactly the case when I want a reverb to be "true stereo". For general uses, I guess you just go for a sound, a color, the character that a given reverb adds to the mix. But I´m still learning and I thought to myself "shouldn´t a reverb be always true stereo?", (unless you want a mono one as an insert, for other uses). I see now there is more to it than what I was thinking. Thanks for unearthing for me this subtleties.
By the way, what´s a "ray tracing technique" reverb?

Re: Long, dark reverb and how to use it?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:25 pm
by Hugh Robjohns
Ray tracing reverbs essentially calculate the paths that sound waves take from a virtual sound source somewhere in a virtual room, to a virtual listening position somewhere else in the same room. It involves creating a 3D model of the room in DSP, taking into account the reflective coefficients of different surfaces, and calculating the delays, amplitudes and frequency responses of initial reflected sounds, along with their reflected directions around the room.

Re: Long, dark reverb and how to use it?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:45 pm
by manwilde
Thanks, Hugh. Hadn´t heard of that kind of reverb. I guess whatever plugin implements that technology is not cheap...
Back to my freeware algorithmics and convolutions... :)

Re: Long, dark reverb and how to use it?

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:51 am
by Guest
good nice sounding music.
her voice makes it hard to hear the reverb effect when singing high pitched,
her softer lower tones make the verb much more audible.
Might want to ride the gain for the vocal to make it more or less noticeable,
or whatever,
cool vibe.

Re: Long, dark reverb and how to use it?

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:12 pm
by manwilde
Thanks for your comments!. I like her voice a lot, and the way she sings.
Yeah, reverb and vocal levels are to be automated when/if the musicians decide to refine the songs and do more tracking.