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What does it mean if an element in a mix is in the "side" AND "mid" channels

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Re: What does it mean if an element in a mix is in the "side" AND "mid" channels

Postby armans » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:28 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Try listening to left only, and right only...
Yes I did that too... the way I do it (and there could be a better method) is import the track as two mono files into my daw. Then I listen to the left and right channel seperately as mono files coming out the centre to both my monitors.... this helps a lot when trying to investigate a mix :)

To listen to the sides and mid channel I use my stereo bus and put MSED on it. Of course I have to pan the files again hard L and R to use msed this way on the stereo channel. Now that I think about it, there might be an easier way to do all this :)
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Re: What does it mean if an element in a mix is in the "side" AND "mid" channels

Postby armans » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:36 pm

Kwackman wrote:To have nothing in the "S" signal, the left and right tracks must be IDENTICAL, i.e the same SINGLE recording copied to both tracks and their channels panned by the same amount. The two channels must have identical plug-ins (if used) with identical settings.

What about the opposite? To have "eveything" in the side channel? What would you need so that side channels guitar sounds perfect as if it was a mono recorded track?

I did some double tracking today and the side channel didnt sound like it sounds in this recording. Mine had some artifacts like phasing or something and my doubles were all different. Some were tight some were loose.. i had variety but none sounded as clean as the side channel in that chorus.
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Re: What does it mean if an element in a mix is in the "side" AND "mid" channels

Postby Kwackman » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:53 pm

armans wrote:
Kwackman wrote:To have nothing in the "S" signal, the left and right tracks must be IDENTICAL, i.e the same SINGLE recording copied to both tracks and their channels panned by the same amount. The two channels must have identical plug-ins (if used) with identical settings.

What about the opposite? To have "eveything" in the side channel? What would you need so that side channels guitar sounds perfect as if it was a mono recorded track?

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve.
If you haven't already done so, I suggest you read the articles Zukan recommended earlier in this thread.
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Re: What does it mean if an element in a mix is in the "side" AND "mid" channels

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:56 pm

armans wrote:What about the opposite? To have "eveything" in the side channel? What would you need so that side channels guitar sounds perfect as if it was a mono recorded track?

Have identical signals on both the left and right channels, but with the right channel in opposite polarity.

I had variety but none sounded as clean as the side channel in that chorus.

One way to achieve that is to have a single recording track, then chop it up rhythmically, and pan alternate parts to opposite sides. That gives a very wide stereo effect, with perfect integrity in both the mid and side channels. Not saying that's definitely how it was done in your reference track, but it is a possibility.
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Re: What does it mean if an element in a mix is in the "side" AND "mid" channels

Postby armans » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:43 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
armans wrote:What about the opposite? To have "eveything" in the side channel? What would you need so that side channels guitar sounds perfect as if it was a mono recorded track?

Have identical signals on both the left and right channels, but with the right channel in opposite polarity.

Aaaaah of course, now that you say it makes perfect sense... and that would of course be cancelled out completely in the stereo mix so makes no sense to have something like that in the mix...hmmmm, unless, Is it not possible that there is some kind of haas delay effect going on with the acoustic guitars in that song. you obviously can't hear it in the verse because the guitar is practically 90% hard panned to the Right so the effect might be lost, but perhaps in the chorus ..... I read somewhere that you can EQ one of the channels of a duplicated mono track to reduce the comb filtering effect and improve mono compatibility with a haas delay (Dan Worral has a great video where he explains it nicely). I would assume, since the guitar plays such an important part in this acoustic song, mono compatibility in the chorus must have been of some importance to the producer/engineer. So I guess, what I am trying to ask, is there a way to know if the guitar was double tracked or if it is one guitar with a haas delay? What clues can I look for?
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Re: What does it mean if an element in a mix is in the "side" AND "mid" channels

Postby armans » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:53 am

Actually what I said was wrong... it would cancel out in the mono mix of the stereo file : )
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