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Do the pros still record / mix in 24-44.1?

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Re: Do the pros still record / mix in 24-44.1?

Postby Mike Stranks » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:04 pm

Even though everything I'm doing these days ends up as YouTube fodder or MP3 320s I keep everything at 44.1 24 until the upload or conversion prior to shipping out.

How stuff comes in to me is a mixture of sampling frequencies, word lengths and formats... :) I make the best of what I'm sent...
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Re: Do the pros still record / mix in 24-44.1?

Postby The Red Bladder » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:18 pm

1. The 'Pros' (whoever they are!) don't care. Whatever the customer wants, they get.

2. There is very little CD recording going on and most of that is taking place in home studios.

3. The 'Pros' (we are still looking!) are mostly working in A for V, so 48 or 96 rules.

This subject is filled with absurdities, because -

1. Microphones only go to 20kHz after which they are capped at -6dB per octave so that they don't pick-up the BBC.

2. Most hi-fis and similar gubbins and many monitor speakers are also capped and for the same reason.

3. Nearly all production sound is at 48khz, though most field recorders today will do 96 or above.

There are occasionally good reasons to use a higher sample rate when certain types of processes happen down the line, in which case one can change it!

A similar madness has broken out in film/video with sensor resolution. Blackmagic-Design have come out with a 12k camera and no doubt others will follow.

BIG PROBLEM - because they have had to arrange the pixels differently to get that OTT resolution, the 12K BMD suffers from annoying moirés. Simply put - good 6K images are better! and a 4K Arri Alexa is far better!

In other words, there is much more to image quality than pixel-count: dynamic range and colours that look natural, esp. skin colours and also the processes (e.g. lossy compression) that camera manufacturers use (without telling you) to wrangle the data and transmit it to the SSD recorder.

Exactly the same applies to audio - but the bean counters at various stages of the production process, because they do not understand the technology (the last one I dealt with was a lawyer) only see that 96 is a higher number than 48, so 96 must be better and 192 better still!
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Re: Do the pros still record / mix in 24-44.1?

Postby ManFromGlass » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:20 pm

24, 44.1 here if it ends up as only audio.
48k if it will be attached to picture.

For every project I ask the mixer what they will need in terms of deliverables. You would think that would be one of the important questions. But maybe I’m old enough to be old school now.
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Re: Do the pros still record / mix in 24-44.1?

Postby forumuser840717 » Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:29 pm

Depends.
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Re: Do the pros still record / mix in 24-44.1?

Postby Zukan » Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:49 am

9/173...because I'm a rebel.
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Re: Do the pros still record / mix in 24-44.1?

Postby ManFromGlass » Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:39 pm

Well if we are going down that road then -
25/49
Because it’s 1 more
:D
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Re: Do the pros still record / mix in 24-44.1?

Postby desmond » Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:46 pm

ManFromGlass wrote:For every project I ask the mixer what they will need in terms of deliverables. You would think that would be one of the important questions. But maybe I’m old enough to be old school now.

Heh. Nowadays the kids just dropbox a random DAW session, not cleaned up, as it was when they left it, featuring all kinds of random plugins. If you get a good one, you *might* have all the assets required, but likely there will be a bit of back and forth before all the required files are there.

You'll be expected to have, and have good working knowledge of all the DAWs, from Nutloops to Nubendo, preferably on both platforms and be able to mix in that DAW/platform (or else, do the consolidation and export work to get it into your preferred system). And you'll need al those plugins too.

There'll be somewhere between 200-300 tracks.

It's the modern way... :headbang:
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Re: Do the pros still record / mix in 24-44.1?

Postby MOF » Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:44 pm

Heh. Nowadays the kids just dropbox a random DAW session, not cleaned up, as it was when they left it, featuring all kinds of random plugins. If you get a good one, you *might* have all the assets required, but likely there will be a bit of back and forth before all the required files are there.

I hope you charge for all that extra work!!!
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Re: Do the pros still record / mix in 24-44.1?

Postby desmond » Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:20 pm

MOF wrote:I hope you charge for all that extra work!!!

The work of coping with other's people's lack of planning, attention to detail, professionalism or general competency, you mean?

If only I did, I'd probably be a millionaire by now... :headbang: :lol:
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Re: Do the pros still record / mix in 24-44.1?

Postby MOF » Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:49 pm

MOF wrote:
I hope you charge for all that extra work!!!

The work of coping with other's people's lack of planning, attention to detail, professionalism or general competency, you mean?

If only I did, I'd probably be a millionaire by now... :headbang: :lol:

That’s a shame. A mate of mine used to have songs with every audio file named “untitled”, Logic added a number on the end of each file automatically. So years later he’s trying to go back to old songs but because Logic songs weren’t saved in folders back then he’s really struggling.
Also my paranoia about making numerous backups, which he used to mock me for, plus converting all my old Logic songs to version 7 (that are playable in subsequent versions) have proven to be well founded, he’s lost quite a bit of work due to hardware failure.
A useful tip: I bounce down each song after doing some work on it so that I can quickly audition tracks at a later date, it saves waiting for Logic to boot up each song, particularly useful for instrumentals that just have a ‘date’ title and I’ve just had an idea for a lyric.
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Re: Do the pros still record / mix in 24-44.1?

Postby MOF » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:09 pm

In answer to the OP, professionally I record 24/48 on a Sound Devices mixer/recorder. It doesn’t do 96khz but even if it did I most probably wouldn’t record at that higher rate since everything I do is the spoken word.
My home studio is set to 24/96, I just figure that it allows plugins that don’t have over sampling capabilities to have more room to cope with anti-aliasing artefacts. Also the higher frequency threshold of the brick wall filter allows a gentle roll off of the high frequencies.
I’d rather have best quality source materials and convert to lower sample/bit rates for delivery, also Apple Music is now asking for high sample rate files, with a view to offering them later no doubt.
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Re: Do the pros still record / mix in 24-44.1?

Postby desmond » Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:31 pm

MOF wrote:So years later he’s trying to go back to old songs but because Logic songs weren’t saved in folders back then he’s really struggling.

This is not that Logic did something bad, this is that Logic recorded to where the user asked it to - it's easy enough to point it to a project folder and say "put all the files of this project in there".

But people would just, bizarrely, record to a single root folder for all their projects, not name anything, and move stuff around, and then wonder why their projects were a mess. This is pretty basic stuff, but it seems some people have to learn the hard way. I still see people these days not knowing at all where they save their stuff - they hit save, and don't think about it. Then when the project disappears from their "Recent projects" list, they're lost and can't find them.

(At least modern day Logic tries to to the right thing for the users who otherwise don't really know what they are doing.)

Really, if someone is going to choose to undertake engineering duties, they have to undertake the responsibility for not making a complete hash of it. :headbang:

Someone who's lost work, or whatever, has my sympathy... but not much sympathy, as it could all be avoided with just a small attention to the fundamentals.

MOF wrote:A useful tip: I bounce down each song after doing some work on it so that I can quickly audition tracks at a later date, it saves waiting for Logic to boot up each song, particularly useful for instrumentals that just have a ‘date’ title and I’ve just had an idea for a lyric.

Yes, work-in-progress bounces are useful. :thumbup:
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Re: Do the pros still record / mix in 24-44.1?

Postby MOF » Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:00 pm

Really, if someone is going to choose to undertake engineering duties, they have to undertake the responsibility for not making a complete hash of it. :headbang:

It’s been a long uphill struggle to get him to be more organised and to make backups. :lol: He considers himself a songwriter but only recently has started to appreciate the importance of the engineering side and is asking how to use eq, compressors and effects. Many times I’d look at his tracks and find a Logic compressor (before they emulated the sound of a classic device) doing nothing because the threshold was set too high, also a reverb inserted onto every guitar and vocal track, no use of auxiliaries or sub groups. On that point I do wish Logic didn’t use the term ‘auxiliary’ for sub groups and auxiliaries.

Someone who's lost work, or whatever, has my sympathy... but not much sympathy, as it could all be avoided with just a small attention to the fundamentals.
Agreed. There’s a saying that anything digital doesn’t exist unless it’s (cloned) in at least two separate places.
My mate’s lost files maybe were copied on to other drives after some nagging from me and another mate, but since they’re all called untitled# it’s a major task. He’s got no patience so he just tries to recreate the song from memory and/or an mp3 that didn’t get lost.

This is not that Logic did something bad, this is that Logic recorded to where the user asked it to - it's easy enough to point it to a project folder and say "put all the files of this project in there".

But people would just, bizarrely, record to a single root folder for all their projects, not name anything, and move stuff around, and then wonder why their projects were a mess. This is pretty basic stuff, but it seems some people have to learn the hard way. I still see people these days not knowing at all where they save their stuff - they hit save, and don't think about it. Then when the project disappears from their "Recent projects" list, they're lost and can't find them.
Yes he fits that description perfectly.

(At least modern day Logic tries to to the right thing for the users who otherwise don't really know what they are doing.)
Agreed. :D
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Re: Do the pros still record / mix in 24-44.1?

Postby The Elf » Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:29 pm

MOF wrote:There’s a saying that anything digital doesn’t exist unless it’s (cloned) in at least three separate places.
FTFY!
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Re: Do the pros still record / mix in 24-44.1?

Postby Luke W » Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:25 pm

The Elf wrote:
MOF wrote:There’s a saying that anything digital doesn’t exist unless it’s (cloned) in at least three separate places.
FTFY!

With one of them in a different building :thumbup:
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