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Waves Bass rider - Export Automation to avoid latency?

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Waves Bass rider - Export Automation to avoid latency?

Postby maxmatthewsmusic » Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:28 pm

Hey everyone

Is it possible to export the 'automation' from a waves plugin like Bass Rider / Vocal Rider?

It would be a useful to be able to copy the automation to a trim plugin to avoid latency.

If it is possible is it possible in V11 versions of the software?

Thanks for your help

Max
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Re: Waves Bass rider - Export Automation to avoid latency?

Postby manwilde » Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:38 pm

Hi. In Reaper, you can freeze a track up to a given FX in the chain. I guess this is what you´re asking about?. Don´t know about other DAWs, probably they have something similar. If yours don´t, just copy the track with only the Waves plugin and work from there, muting the original.
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Re: Waves Bass rider - Export Automation to avoid latency?

Postby maxmatthewsmusic » Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:53 pm

Hey manwilde,

Thanks for your response.

That's an interesting feature of Reaper but it's not exactly what I'm after.
I'm looking to export the actual "shape" of the automation from a plugin like Bass rider.

I should in theory be able to then copy that "shape" to a different plugin's automation lane such as "utility" or "gain". This would remove any latency as those plugins have ~0ms.

I started looking on youtube and it seems possible in V12 of the plugin when using Logic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBZgTmzIo3E

I use Ableton and am limited to using V11 of the plugin which I think is barren of the capability I am looking for.

If anyone knows if it is possible it would be much appreciated!

Max
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Re: Waves Bass rider - Export Automation to avoid latency?

Postby The Elf » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:46 pm

I feel sure with those levellers you can export the automation, at least in Cubase, but I've never done it.
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Re: Waves Bass rider - Export Automation to avoid latency?

Postby RonanMcDermott » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:56 pm

I'm not familiar with that plugin. But if it records the automation within the plugin rather than within the DAW, it seems to me to be a walled garden (proprietary, therefore not good).
Can you use DAW automation instead?
If I've misunderstood, kindly ignore me!
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Re: Waves Bass rider - Export Automation to avoid latency?

Postby maxmatthewsmusic » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:51 pm

Hey guys,

Thanks for advice/assistance,

Re The Elf:
It could be an Ableton limitation. One can normally "key map" plugins in Ableton allowing a user to record automation from whatever plug-in parameter they want.

You ARE able to write automation out of the plugin but unfortunately not for the parameter I am trying to export - namely the "rider" parameter.

I've ran into the problem before in Ableton - it's a kind of silly limitation because it seems entirely arbitrary.

I think RonanMcDermott is correct in that the automation seems to be recorded "within" the plugin.

Re RonanMcDermott:

You haven't mis-understood at all. You're exactly right in that it looks to be a "walled garden." I can of course use DAW automation - I'm just looking to save some time while simultaneously reducing the artifacts & latency which the Bass Rider plug-in adds.

Again thanks for everyone's advice.

Max
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Re: Waves Bass rider - Export Automation to avoid latency?

Postby CS70 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:23 pm

maxmatthewsmusic wrote:If anyone knows if it is possible it would be much appreciated!

It isn't. It's obviously possible to export the result, but not the fader moves themselves, because from the DAW's does not know that there's a fader and the plugin doesn't expose it. I just loaded an instance in a track and your can export the parameters set as a preset of course.

But, perhaps we can help regarding what you would use this envelope for, if it were possible to have it? The specific micro-movements would make sense only for that specific bass line, but if you for example wants some other bus to follow the variations, there's other ways..
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Re: Waves Bass rider - Export Automation to avoid latency?

Postby maxmatthewsmusic » Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:04 am

Hey CS70,

Thanks for the clarification.

I am actually really looking for the "specific micro-movements."

I was really just looking to automate the volume of a Bass DI to avoid having to compress the signal too much (whilst also avoiding any additional latency or artifacts, + saving some time).

I could just double the track before using the plug-in and then print down the second version of the track (with an instance of the plugin on it) and then line it up to the first track to nullify the latency... (there would still be artifacts of course).

I'll have a mess around.

If you have any other recommended plug-ins for this type of "automatic-automation" hit me up!

Thanks for your help

Max
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Re: Waves Bass rider - Export Automation to avoid latency?

Postby The Elf » Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:09 pm

Ah, I see that it's Vocal Rider I was recalling that enables the fader to be captured as automation. Pity that this facility didn't make it into Bass Rider.
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Re: Waves Bass rider - Export Automation to avoid latency?

Postby CS70 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:52 pm

maxmatthewsmusic wrote:I was really just looking to automate the volume of a Bass DI to avoid having to compress the signal too much (whilst also avoiding any additional latency or artifacts, + saving some time).

Hmm.. well, a compressor is automation of the volume knob. I agree the BR has a nicer interface coming from a player perspective, but you can get the same effect with a couple of compressors, one set with no makeup gain to ensure the max level doesn't go over the range top, and another with makeup gain to ensure the lower-volume bits get brought up to the range bottom. As of latency, I suspect the BR has a little lookahead to allow it to minimize fast-attack distortion (and compensates for that by anticipating the grab of the signal), which is probably controlled by the "spill" and "artifacts" knob.

But in practice I've never met a bass line made by a decent player that needed more than a single compressor to keep in line...
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Re: Waves Bass rider - Export Automation to avoid latency?

Postby blinddrew » Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:31 pm

CS70 wrote:But in practice I've never met a bass line made by a decent player that needed more than a single compressor to keep in line...
::: looks at bass :::

::: looks at plugin chain on recent recording :::

::: adds 'learn to play bass' to new year's resolutions ::: :(


;)
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Re: Waves Bass rider - Export Automation to avoid latency?

Postby The Elf » Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:19 pm

To be fair to Waves, Bass Rider is more sophisticated than a simple compressor, or the most agile of human fader handlers, but... I agree that it shouldn't take much to tame a bass.
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Re: Waves Bass rider - Export Automation to avoid latency?

Postby CS70 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:16 pm

blinddrew wrote:
CS70 wrote:But in practice I've never met a bass line made by a decent player that needed more than a single compressor to keep in line...
::: looks at bass :::

::: looks at plugin chain on recent recording :::

::: adds 'learn to play bass' to new year's resolutions ::: :(


;)

Simply stop all the slapping and you'll be fine :lol:
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Re: Waves Bass rider - Export Automation to avoid latency?

Postby maxmatthewsmusic » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:57 pm

Thanks for the great feedback on this post!

It's good to know that Vocal rider can capture the automation - will definitely check that out!
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Re: Waves Bass rider - Export Automation to avoid latency?

Postby ManFromGlass » Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:16 pm

Just for fun -
Why don’t you put vocal rider on the bass track and see if it gets you where you want to go. You never know in this crazy music world of braking the rules.
(Breaking not braking - grrrr autokorekt)
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