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Re: active near field monitors

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:34 pm

Zukan wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:You could add Neumann KH120s at around €570?

That's for a single monitor not a pair.

Yes, I checked prices of a couple on the OPs list, both were priced for single monitors so I quoted the price of the KH120 similarly.
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Re: active near field monitors

Postby ef37a » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:10 pm

James Perrett wrote:
ef37a wrote:I would like to challenge the premise "can't go to a shop and listen to...."

Are/were there eversuch shops where they have a whole stack of speakers readily wired up to some impeccably source and readily switchable for your listening?

I don't know about nowadays but certainly when I bought my first hifi speakers from Guildford Hifi they set up a few different contenders in their demonstration room so that I could compare them. I'm fairly sure they had some kind of custom speaker switch at the time.

Well yes James there were a few comparaters about yonks ago in hi fi shops. There was one that allowed pickups to be compared as well...But, this I fear is the wrong direction this thread has gone down. If you a into high end video work you don't buy high res' screens based on 'warm flesh tones' or bluer than blue skys! No, you buy a video monitor that tells you the truth about what was shot and I understand you should calibrate them? (I did something similar setting grey scales on CTVs. You had a source of "Illuminate D".

Monitor speakers should be similarly accurate. No matter if you have dodgy hearing, you need the music reproduced 'as was'. (Heck! I could probably do without a tweeter!)

Ok, some MILD adjustments are in order to correct for desk mounting or proximity to a wall but these are just aids to better accuracy.

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Re: active near field monitors

Postby blinddrew » Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:34 pm

ef37a wrote:I would like to challenge the premise "can't go to a shop and listen to...."

Are/were there eversuch shops where they have a whole stack of speakers readily wired up to some impeccably source and readily switchable for your listening?
Gear4Music has about two dozen sets wired up. It's not a treated room and obviously far from good, but it does show the larger difference between speakers. Certainly enough to knock a few off the short list.
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Re: active near field monitors

Postby Zukan » Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:45 am

Sam Spoons wrote:
Zukan wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:You could add Neumann KH120s at around €570?

That's for a single monitor not a pair.

Yes, I checked prices of a couple on the OPs list, both were priced for single monitors so I quoted the price of the KH120 similarly.

My bad.
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Re: active near field monitors

Postby ef37a » Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:42 am

blinddrew wrote:
ef37a wrote:I would like to challenge the premise "can't go to a shop and listen to...."

Are/were there eversuch shops where they have a whole stack of speakers readily wired up to some impeccably source and readily switchable for your listening?
Gear4Music has about two dozen sets wired up. It's not a treated room and obviously far from good, but it does show the larger difference between speakers. Certainly enough to knock a few off the short list.

Have they indeed Drew? I can think of several things to say about that!

First off, any speaker buried with 23 others is going to have its response heavily modified and, as I said before, its directivity and therefore imaging completely buggered. Shoot! Some of them are almost 'soffit mounted'! Even two identical speakers will sound very different if one is on the edge of the stack and the other in the middle.

Then, having gone to the enormous trouble (the switching system* must be a wonder to behold!) and expense, they have £1000s of stock tied up, they don't treat the room! To me that shows a level of ignorance of basic acoustics.

One 'historic' test of speakers that USED to be done was to play 'natural' sounds simply recorded. Jangling keys, a toy xylophone was used. For mid range accuracy there is nothing better than the human voice. Record 'significant other' and see if the speaker sounds like her or him (cannot use self) . Full range can be tested with a grand Joe but only one YOU have direct harkening of.

Honestly, to me this thread seems about peeps choosing a pair of 'nice' speakers for the living room!

*And switched instantly they must be. No fair the guy saying "Hang on, that's not the Blugers. Ah, I think this is the right pair of XLRs"!!

Quick test. Play pink noise through one of your speakers then slowly move about a sqr foot of material, a copy of SOS will do, across its front at about a foot away. You will hear the sound quality change. THAT's how sensitive speakers are to their surroundings. Heck, I can hear the effect and I have nothing past about TWO kHz!

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Re: active near field monitors

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:58 am

Switching speaker comparisons are a real nightmare to perform.

Level calibration between pairs is essential -- just 1dB difference can really bias the preferencing. Place two sets of speakers side by side and the outer pair will almost always sound 'better' than the inner pair. And then there are the local acoustics issues that you've already mentioned.

When I'm reviewing speakers I don't switch repeatedly between them -- and usually I don't even have both sets up on stands at the same time. Instead I prefer to listen to a collection of well known test tracks and assess how far I can hear into them. And then I listen again to them on my reference speakers to make sure my assessment is reliable. And I might repeat that process several times with different kinds of material until I'm absolutely sure I have a good handle on the review model's strengths and weaknesses.
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Re: active near field monitors

Postby ef37a » Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:06 pm

Ha! In my tirade Hugh I had forgotten about level matching!

Yes, your testing process is about as fair and exhaustive as it can likely be. How long to do that with 24 monitor pairs?!!

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Re: active near field monitors

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:19 pm

ef37a wrote:How long to do that with 24 monitor pairs?!!

Don't ask me... I wouldn't be doing it! :-)
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Re: active near field monitors

Postby blinddrew » Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:56 pm

For the record I wasn't suggesting that the G4M set-up was remotely comparable to a home test, but it answers your question about whether anywhere has stuff set up permanently. And yes, they're all set up through a switcher.
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Re: active near field monitors

Postby RichardT » Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:11 pm

Another problem with rapid switching is that our first impressions of a speaker can be strongly affected by how similar or different it is to what we are used to hearing. Speaking for myself, It can take quite a while for me to get used to a new speaker, or room, and listening to multiple speakers in quick succession doesn’t allow time to get used to the sound.

For the OP, I’d say that there are many very good speakers around now, so many that it’s impossible to audition all the contenders, so I’d simply find a speaker that has stellar reviews and see if you can get a pair on sale or return.
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Re: active near field monitors

Postby ef37a » Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:44 pm

blinddrew wrote:For the record I wasn't suggesting that the G4M set-up was remotely comparable to a home test, but it answers your question about whether anywhere has stuff set up permanently. And yes, they're all set up through a switcher.

Sorry Drew. Yes you were just answering the question, not having a pop at you I promise!

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Re: active near field monitors

Postby blinddrew » Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:56 pm

:thumbup:
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Re: active near field monitors

Postby CS70 » Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:18 pm

Perhaps a shop could implement something like this, for monitors...

Image

The swap time would help resetting the ears, especially if before any audition the room were to be filled with a good dollop of say Justin Bieber stuff.. :lol:

Not a modest investment for the shop, however.
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Re: active near field monitors

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:45 pm

Zukan wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:
Zukan wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:You could add Neumann KH120s at around €570?

That's for a single monitor not a pair.

Yes, I checked prices of a couple on the OPs list, both were priced for single monitors so I quoted the price of the KH120 similarly.

My bad.

Not really Zuk, I should have made that clear... I was answering in a hurry :blush:
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Re: active near field monitors

Postby uselessoldman » Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:30 pm

I bought the Adams T7Vs about 6 months ago now after doing my own extensive research listening testing head scratching. I liked them best cos there was enough bass but not too much, my room is only smallish so I didn't need huge speakers but I found 5" was too small and I did not like using a subwoofer, I already have one if that was needed and I wanted to get away form using it. I also found the volume suitable which was also important. But there were some mid sound guitar rubs, drum hits they picked out others failed to do and there lovely with vocals.

What sold me was the above and their 5 year warranty !!
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