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Timing Vs Tempo ???

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Timing Vs Tempo ???

Postby DigitalMusicProduction » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:35 pm

Hi

Concerning timing vs tempo, is the quantization feature in Logic only for tracks recorded with a metronome? Example, if i we're to record the piano in free form, and found throughout the course of recording there were parts and phrases out of time, could quantization render those parts and phrases correct?

Because up until now I've had to manually apply tempo nodes using "Global Track Automation" the job gets done, but time is a great factor.
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Re: Timing Vs Tempo ???

Postby desmond » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:44 pm

Yes. Quantization moves played event towards the tempo grid.

If you're recorded freeform, then you've completely ignored the tempo grid (ie, haven't played to a click-track/metronome), so the grid is meaningless, and so is any automatic quantisation.

There are a few ways to get Logic to analyse your free form recording and generate a tempo-mapped grid from it, so that you *could* quantize, but this is a procedure with varying degrees of success and varying methods - in short, it can be complicated depending on many factors, and is not the sort of thing that is easily expressed into a three click recipe for perfect immediate results via a forum post - and you probably shouldn't be quantizing a classical piece to a grid anyway.

So if you've played a part for a classical piece, and the timing is bad, then your choices are to fix the notes, or play multiple performances and comp together the best performance from the best parts of each take. Your best path will be dependent on how good your playing skills are, and how bad the timing is - if it's anything more than a few notes that are a little out, it's easy enough to fix. But if you are trying to shape a lumpy, unfeeling performance into a musically-intentioned feel by moving individual notes around in the edit pages, that way madness lies, imo. It's almost impossible to create a beautiful, classical, free-flowing performance in the edit page when you don't have one to start with.
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Re: Timing Vs Tempo ???

Postby RichardT » Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:53 pm

Sadly it’s a manual process if you are not recording to a grid. Creating detailed tempo maps for a free-form performance is just too hard to do right in my experience and probably won’t help you that much anyway in getting a natural feel.

If I have to do this In Cubase, I do it in the key editor with a lane open showing note velocities. The unevenness of the notes is much easier to spot and fix using the velocities rather than using the key editor itself.

Here’s a screenshot if the key editor showing a velocity lane
https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro/v11/en/cubase_nuendo/topics/midi_editors/midi_editors_key_editor_r.html

I hope that helps.
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Re: Timing Vs Tempo ???

Postby DigitalMusicProduction » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:43 am

RichardT wrote:Sadly it’s a manual process if you are not recording to a grid. Creating detailed tempo maps for a free-form performance is just too hard to do right in my experience

I agree entirely.. however i have found the process in compensating for notes and phrases out of time has been to use the "Cycle Region" and "Play Head" as a kind of tool for measuring and ruling the distance of notes that we're correctly in time to those that we're not, and to copy and paste phrases that we're correct in time in replace to those that we're not. This process is very time consuming, but the result is near perfect and very pleasing.
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Re: Timing Vs Tempo ???

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:51 pm

Would it not be quicker and more rewarding just to rehearse / practice more / better to capture an acceptable performance in the first place?
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Re: Timing Vs Tempo ???

Postby CS70 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:24 pm

If it's of any help, in my recent foray in recording a piano part, I found it very helpful to figure out a few measures at the time and recording them progressively, every time starting a few bars before (to get a sense of the feel) and using a metronome.

I am in absolute no way a classical piano player (not even remotely a piano player at all) and this part was for a mix, not to be heard in isolation, but after a few attempts it didn't sound half bad. Small bits really make it easier.
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