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Why doesn't my bounce sound like my active mix?

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Re: Why doesn't my bounce sound like my active mix?

Postby Aled Hughes » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:25 pm

Strange!

They still null perfectly on 6.28, but only after I disabled the ReaTune pitch-correction I had on one track (all other tracks nulled)

I think that's the only stock Reaper plugin I have on the project, so maybe something's changed with the plugins?
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Re: Why doesn't my bounce sound like my active mix?

Postby blinddrew » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:03 pm

Aled Hughes wrote:I ticked the 'Add rendered items to new tracks in project' option in the render dialogue - have you done this? It imports the bounce on a new track in the correct place on the timeline).
This is the only thing I didn't do there, but as both files are starting from 0:00 anyway there's nothing to go wrong.
BX is definitely doing something (as it should) because if I take two sequential renders they don't null. As you'd expect.
But if I disable every instance of BX then do two sequential renders, the renders null, but not against the active mix.
I really wouldn't be bothered with a bit of variation if it actually didn't sound worse! :headbang:
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Re: Why doesn't my bounce sound like my active mix?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:11 pm

So if the active and render don't null, what's left over? Which elements are different and in what way?
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Re: Why doesn't my bounce sound like my active mix?

Postby blinddrew » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:14 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:So if the active and render don't null, what's left over? Which elements are different and in what way?
It's a bit like listening to the rejected material from an MP3 file, but not as extreme!
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Re: Why doesn't my bounce sound like my active mix?

Postby Aled Hughes » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:19 pm

blinddrew wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:So if the active and render don't null, what's left over? Which elements are different and in what way?
It's a bit like listening to the rejected material from an MP3 file, but not as extreme!

Are you sure there’s no sample rate conversion going on? Have you checked the “Extreme HQ” in the render menu, just in case?
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Re: Why doesn't my bounce sound like my active mix?

Postby Kwackman » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:04 pm

You haven't got Sonarworks on have you?
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Re: Why doesn't my bounce sound like my active mix?

Postby RichardT » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:17 pm

If you null the two, how big is the remaining signal?
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Re: Why doesn't my bounce sound like my active mix?

Postby Martin Walker » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:21 pm

Hi Drew!

I'm glad you mentioned that you have temporarily disabled all plug-ins, as the last time I read of a similar discrepancy between a live and rendered project it was down to a few 'analogue' plug-ins that added random nonlinearities each time they were rendered (those that add faux 'hum or 'hiss' are particularly annoying in this respect!)


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Re: Why doesn't my bounce sound like my active mix?

Postby Kwackman » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:37 pm

Kwackman wrote:You haven't got Sonarworks on have you?

Having actually read your first post properly (a novel idea, I know!) I now see my Sonarworks query is pointless.
It's too late to delete it - so please just ignore it, although I assume you already have done!
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Re: Why doesn't my bounce sound like my active mix?

Postby blinddrew » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:43 pm

Aled Hughes wrote:
blinddrew wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:So if the active and render don't null, what's left over? Which elements are different and in what way?
It's a bit like listening to the rejected material from an MP3 file, but not as extreme!

Are you sure there’s no sample rate conversion going on? Have you checked the “Extreme HQ” in the render menu, just in case?
I can't remember. I think I did check that as part of my desperation!
I'm not on that machine at the moment but I will check in due course.

RichardT wrote:If you null the two, how big is the remaining signal?
Small, but bigger than you'd expect. I'll get exact numbers next time I'm logged on.

Martin Walker wrote:Hi Drew!
I'm glad you mentioned that you have temporarily disabled all plug-ins, as the last time I read of a similar discrepancy between a live and rendered project it was down to a few 'analogue' plug-ins that added random nonlinearities each time they were rendered (those that add faux 'hum or 'hiss' are particularly annoying in this respect!)
Martin
The next step is to run a series of bounces, starting with no plugins at all and bringing them back up bit by bit, to see if I can find a likely culprit.
Assuming of course that the 'no plugin bounce' nulls out.
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Re: Why doesn't my bounce sound like my active mix?

Postby Peevy » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:29 pm

Have you checked that your bounced track and live mix have identical readings on some sort of peak meter? i.e. is the volume exactly the same on both?
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Re: Why doesn't my bounce sound like my active mix?

Postby blinddrew » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:55 pm

Yep, True Peak readings check out.
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Re: Why doesn't my bounce sound like my active mix?

Postby Wonks » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:18 am

Parallel universe then. Yours is being sent to another one, and you’re getting Drew version X’s mix.
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Re: Why doesn't my bounce sound like my active mix?

Postby blinddrew » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:36 am

Wonks wrote:Parallel universe then. Yours is being sent to another one, and you’re getting Drew version X’s mix.
Well at least i'm producing a slightly better mix than somebody...
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Re: Why doesn't my bounce sound like my active mix?

Postby Wonks » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:41 am

Drew version X will be posting on some parallel SOS forum that " A great way to improve your active mix is just to bounce it down. It's magic!"
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