You are here

When will we get an A.I. DAW?

For everything after the recording stage: hardware/software and how you use it.

Moderator: Moderators

Re: When will we get an A.I. DAW?

Postby ManFromGlass » Mon May 03, 2021 12:51 am

from the economic point of view -
Your personal Song AI creates 1000 songs today before lunch and gets them on the net to the appropriate genre sites.
Each play or partial play nets you .oo341 of a cent.
You’ve been creating 1000 songs a day for a few years.
You also own the publishing to all (have to switch to calculator for a sec) 1,825,000 plus tunes. Times this by the number of plays and the .00341
You might be able to afford food for a week by the time this all happens but mostly because of the cost of food.
User avatar
ManFromGlass
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4424
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:00 am
Location: O Canada

Re: When will we get an A.I. DAW?

Postby Rob Hansen » Mon May 03, 2021 4:29 am

Lol! This question could logically be phrased in a way that is certain to upset some people: "When do I get an A.I. engineer?" :protest: I think the results would be interesting, like cgi characters in movie. That idea seemed to threaten actors for a time but ultimately turned out to be a moot point. Similarly, good human engineers need not fret. A recording A.I. would be okay for a basic assist, but I'd really just rather have something to talk to.
Rob Hansen
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon May 03, 2021 4:19 am

Re: When will we get an A.I. DAW?

Postby The Elf » Mon May 03, 2021 9:14 am

blinddrew wrote:Hmmm. I suspect most people are more interested in the song than the mix.
I'd agree up to a point, but let's take an example... Buggles' 'Video Killed the Radio Star'. How would a 'normal' mix of that sound?

I don't want to live in a world where that kind of creativity is deferred to the 'beige everywhere' world of AI.
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 16594
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: When will we get an A.I. DAW?

Postby Wonks » Mon May 03, 2021 9:40 am

Technically, I can see the AI would only work with a limited number of plug-ins otherwise it won’t know how to control them. Yes, you could have a learn mode so you can map say five of the most common features of that type of plug-in, but if the plug-ins got twenty parameters to adjust, then there’s a whole lot of stuff that makes that plug-in special going to waste.

So you end up with every track using the same limited range of available effects. OK, that didn’t stop great music being produced in studios in the pre-DAW age where you just had the studio’s rack effects (plus maybe a plate reverb or echo chamber), but it is a big step backwards.

On the other hand, if it allows people more time to concentrate on the performance and getting the sound right at source etc. then that could be a good thing.
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 11434
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Re: When will we get an A.I. DAW?

Postby ore_terra » Mon May 03, 2021 10:04 am

I can think in a few commercial genres that wouldnt suffer too much with an automated mixing process... in the end most tracks sound exactly the same, with same effects, same balancing, same... all!

I know a producer/mixer here with quite a few reggeton hits who always use the same template, the same libraries and the same 2 or 3 singers. once the song is programmed and recorded he says it takes no more than 15 mins to get it mixed and mastered, and that includes a bit of editing time too :lol:
User avatar
ore_terra
Frequent Poster
Posts: 793
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:56 pm
Location: Seville - Spain

Re: When will we get an A.I. DAW?

Postby blinddrew » Mon May 03, 2021 11:11 am

The Elf wrote:
blinddrew wrote:Hmmm. I suspect most people are more interested in the song than the mix.
I'd agree up to a point, but let's take an example... Buggles' 'Video Killed the Radio Star'. How would a 'normal' mix of that sound?

I don't want to live in a world where that kind of creativity is deferred to the 'beige everywhere' world of AI.
This is why I'm not concerned about it. But it is coming and will be enough for a lot of people.
Look at it this way perhaps:
Take a random scroll through SoundCloud, consider how basic / bad some of the mixing is there. Stuff that's obviously been recorded in an untreated room, with no understanding of mic positioning, loads of low frequency rumble because the user doesn't know what a HPF is, lots of lisping because they've discovered the de-esser but have completely over-cranked it, the whole thing is flat as a pancake because they stuck a limiter on the master buss and cranked it to make it loud... etc etc etc.
These are the songs and the people for which it'll be a godsend.
And actually it'll be a benefit for all of us because all of these tracks will end up better and we'll be able to appreciate the songs more.

What it will do though is bring the kind of conversations that mastering engineers put up with down to the mix engineer as well.
You know the ones I'm talking about... :D
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 14545
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: When will we get an A.I. DAW?

Postby worshiptuned » Mon May 03, 2021 11:39 am

beej65 wrote: Or is it better tothink of that stage as a pre-mix before, say, our current state of the art AI DAW's intervention (Izotope was alluded above, I assume referring to the various Assistants in Neutron/Nectar/Ozone etc.). And would any have any other examples beside Izotope of where similar AI might be found?

Yes, EZ mix 2 of Toontrack. I didn't test it. But I have Izotope and I was quite excited to try the Izotope Assistants, the mix assistant, the vocal assistant... The plugins sound good, but the assistants...it was so disappointing. I thought they were a good starting point and would lift my productions. After a few trials I ended up thinking that my very modest mixing skills provide a much better starting point! I would suggest the assistants for people that don't know absolutely anything about mixing.
I found useful instead the tonal balance control that helps to compare your mix with the average tonal balance of other mixes of the same genre.
worshiptuned
Regular
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:36 pm
my Spotify my YouTube  
 

Re: When will we get an A.I. DAW?

Postby ManFromGlass » Mon May 03, 2021 12:11 pm

I was disappointed too. A digital assistant sounded cool.
I think with the AI there would be choices of “In the style of” or even better “In The Virtual Studio of”
And poof, there would be a CGI Bob Clearmountain or Sir George Martin greeting you and doing your mix.
User avatar
ManFromGlass
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4424
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:00 am
Location: O Canada

Re: When will we get an A.I. DAW?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon May 03, 2021 12:45 pm

I think Drew is right; AI mixing wouldn't be a replacement for real engineers, and wouldn't challenge the creativity and talents of a good engineer. And it probably wouldn't appeal to anyone with a genuine interest in the skills and art of mixing...

But it would be useful and I would appeal to musicians who just want something to deal with building a basic balance and dealing with 'all that technical stuff' that holds n interest for them. And even if it did no better than create acceptable demo mixes, that would be seen as a great thing to that market.

The only question is whether that market is sufficiently large to warrant the R&D and whether it would be willin to pay enough for an AI mixing app to make it commerciall viable.

I have my doubts.... :-)
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 30705
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual... 

Re: When will we get an A.I. DAW

Postby RichardT » Mon May 03, 2021 12:58 pm

Sampled instruments haven’t completely replaced real instruments and musicians.

Automated manufacturing hasn’t completely replaced craftspeople.

Camera phones haven’t completely replaced professional photographers.

It will be the same here. It will enable more people to produce reasonable tracks, but it won’t replace the skills required to produce the best stuff.
RichardT
Frequent Poster
Posts: 859
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:00 am
Location: London UK

Re: When will we get an A.I. DAW?

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon May 03, 2021 1:49 pm

blinddrew wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:The only people who could materially benefit from such AI would be the pros who might save some time but they probably do a better job just as quickly as any computer what is the point. For most of us it would defeat the object of the exercise, the pleasure derived from doing it yourself (however imperfectly).
I'm not convinced there Sam, i think there are a lot of musicians who aren't interested in the engineering side at all and just want to create a product. I suspect that's a larger potential user base than people who want to understand the difference between a dynamic eq and a multiband compressor.

You may well be right, I was looking at it from a sound engineers PoV not the musician's PoV.

That said the word 'product' in this context jars a little...
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 15715
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Still taking this recording lark seriously (and trying to record my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: When will we get an A.I. DAW?

Postby TheLegit » Mon May 03, 2021 5:42 pm

blinddrew wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:The only people who could materially benefit from such AI would be the pros who might save some time but they probably do a better job just as quickly as any computer what is the point. For most of us it would defeat the object of the exercise, the pleasure derived from doing it yourself (however imperfectly).
I'm not convinced there Sam, i think there are a lot of musicians who aren't interested in the engineering side at all and just want to create a product. I suspect that's a larger potential user base than people who want to understand the difference between a dynamic eq and a multiband compressor.

I agree I'm one of those although I've warmed to the mixing side more and more as it has been forced upon me, but I'd have killed for something like this a few years back. I think an A.I. DAW would be very appealing indeed to many producers as it takes the time and cost out of the engineering side of things. I suppose it would be a dark day for sound engineers though!
TheLegit
Regular
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:16 pm

Re: When will we get an A.I. DAW?

Postby TheLegit » Mon May 03, 2021 5:45 pm

blinddrew wrote:
The Elf wrote:
blinddrew wrote:Hmmm. I suspect most people are more interested in the song than the mix.
I'd agree up to a point, but let's take an example... Buggles' 'Video Killed the Radio Star'. How would a 'normal' mix of that sound?

I don't want to live in a world where that kind of creativity is deferred to the 'beige everywhere' world of AI.
This is why I'm not concerned about it. But it is coming and will be enough for a lot of people.
Look at it this way perhaps:
Take a random scroll through SoundCloud, consider how basic / bad some of the mixing is there. Stuff that's obviously been recorded in an untreated room, with no understanding of mic positioning, loads of low frequency rumble because the user doesn't know what a HPF is, lots of lisping because they've discovered the de-esser but have completely over-cranked it, the whole thing is flat as a pancake because they stuck a limiter on the master buss and cranked it to make it loud... etc etc etc.
These are the songs and the people for which it'll be a godsend.
And actually it'll be a benefit for all of us because all of these tracks will end up better and we'll be able to appreciate the songs more.

What it will do though is bring the kind of conversations that mastering engineers put up with down to the mix engineer as well.
You know the ones I'm talking about... :D

We can only speculate what an intelligent DAW could do might be amazing, look at the virtual/ intelligent tools open to us like Oeksound Soothe 2. Drums you can get a super realistic sound these days and they'll chuck in the groove played for you as well. I wish it was here now
TheLegit
Regular
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:16 pm

Re: When will we get an A.I. DAW?

Postby TheLegit » Mon May 03, 2021 5:47 pm

Rob Hansen wrote:Lol! This question could logically be phrased in a way that is certain to upset some people: "When do I get an A.I. engineer?" :protest: I think the results would be interesting, like cgi characters in movie. That idea seemed to threaten actors for a time but ultimately turned out to be a moot point. Similarly, good human engineers need not fret. A recording A.I. would be okay for a basic assist, but I'd really just rather have something to talk to.

Suppose the sentient DAW changes the song a bit and then claims a cut :mrgreen:
TheLegit
Regular
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:16 pm

Re: When will we get an A.I. DAW?

Postby blinddrew » Mon May 03, 2021 6:07 pm

TheLegit wrote:Suppose the sentient DAW changes the song a bit and then claims a cut :mrgreen:
It's an interesting challenge to come further down the line. At the moment, in the US at least, a copyright can only be held by a human being, but you could easily see it being added into EULAs.
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 14545
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

PreviousNext