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next step DAW grown out of Garageband

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Re: next step DAW grown out of Garageband

Postby MOF » Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:47 pm

I am not a great fan of Macs and have grown out of Garageband so although Logic Pro beckons it doesn't let me leave the Mac behind…..
I am a musician so less interested in the tech but need to be able to record to a good technical standard

Why aren’t you a fan of Macs?
If you’re not interested in the tech then my understanding of PCs is that you will have to get more tech savvy if you go down that route.
I use GB on my iPhone when out and about to get ideas down and then transfer to Logic.
No computer is perfect but my experience of Apple products is that they just work and Logic is great value and powerful.
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Re: next step DAW grown out of Garageband

Postby forumuser743521 » Sun Jun 06, 2021 1:56 pm

thank you for all of these useful replies I really appreciate them

I have got to a point where I think that either Reaper or Logic Pro are the two contenders for very different reasons I have also found a boxed set of Logic Studio installation CDs that came with my Mac from the previous owner which appears to have an old version of Logic Pro in there so may be able to give me a bit of a look

When I visit some of the tracks I have done in GB they do sound just fine / professional to be (admittedly untrained) ear

https://emastered.com/profile/CharlieBr ... 84-h8GtIjW

thanks again - really useful advice !
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Re: next step DAW grown out of Garageband

Postby dbfs » Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:52 pm

Garageband is great and all but it is a gateway to Logic which is a gateway to the Mac ecosystem of Silicon on Chip with NO User options for upgrading afterwards. Nothing. Oh and If the SSD goes, then the whole thing is likely just going to e-waste.

Quite disturbing search this "M1 Mac users report excessive SSD usage, potentially affecting the component’s lifespan":

If the spec you buy today is fine, just beware that there will be no upgrades, Oh and as people like to say, Macs just work. Well, they do just work and often they are working perfectly well until Apple release and OS update (Yearly) and they always cut models that they consider too old and will not be eligible for updating. So in summary they just work until Apple say otherwise.

The are expensive and have no upgrades possibilities in the future. Oh and the guy you think might buy you old mac, well, maybe he will pass on a second hand machine with a battered SSD that cannot be replaced.

On the other hand, grab any old pc, stick Reaper on it, try some free synths, buy some synths, and sit back in the knowledge that you can upgrade your system and that the Daw you use is from a company that state the following.

"Cockos Incorporated was founded in 2004, beginning an effort to build quality software that would benefit people throughout the world.

Our goal is to develop software sustainably while preventing profit rationale from forcing engineering compromises. By doing so, we can keep our product visions intact, giving maximum benefit to our users.

We lovingly craft the software that we want to use."

They make it affordable and offer an open ended trial.

In summary, I would say choose anything but Logic/Apple. Well not really, run from Avid while you are at it.
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Re: next step DAW grown out of Garageband

Postby MOF » Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:54 pm

Quite disturbing search this "M1 Mac users report excessive SSD usage, potentially affecting the component’s lifespan":

That’s only if you’re writing (not reading) massive amounts of data per day, every day.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MVBhZcVdU2A

Well, they do just work and often they are working perfectly well until Apple release and OS update (Yearly) and they always cut models that they consider too old and will not be eligible for updating. So in summary they just work until Apple say

I have had typically ten years of useful life from my Apple computers, I hold onto the old ones to do stuff they can still do, by which time, like PCs have also had support withdrawn.
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Re: next step DAW grown out of Garageban

Postby RichardT » Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:29 pm

In summary, I would say choose anything but Logic/Apple. Well not really, run from Avid while you are at it.

I’ve used both Macs and PCs over many years. You’re right about lack of upgradability, but for me working on Macs is just a nicer, smoother experience ;). After 7 years, I’m starting to feel my MacBook Pro is getting a bit slow for modern software, and it would be nice to have the option to upgrade the memory or even the CPU, but that has to be weighed against the pleasure of working with it many hours a day. It’s a balance.
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Re: next step DAW grown out of Garageband

Postby Humble Bee » Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:12 pm

Yes Mac is where to be these days with the M1 machines! And with a little bit of patience the pro machines will hit the world soon and with a bang. Crazy performance!

And I always loved the smoothness of the Mac OS environment.

Logic is great bang for the buck and if you’re tight Reaper is a great DAW. Ive been looking at Cubase lately to get better hardware midi integration but it’s still a bit pricy, especially since updates are about 80ish bucks a year while logic is free... go figure.
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Re: next step DAW grown out of Garageband

Postby dbfs » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:59 pm

Nice Video link there MOF.

But taking the case of the middle iMac here on the Apple store means that a mac user would be paying £1,449.00 for a machine with 256GB storage.

https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-mac/imac

Now even Mark in the video explains that the small disk size is much more likely to cause your cells to be damaged as there is less space for the wear levelling.

So even with Marks faith that all *might* be well depending on usage, it makes me think

A - Were Apple being responsible shipping these machines with 256GB in 2020/2021
B - Would you like to buy a used one?
C - While you said you usually hold on to the old machines, I figure it might not be an option any more as you might have to keep it it if people are no willing to buy used disposable devices. It would be a bit like buying used paper plates.

I recently got a Scan Doctor Mix PC and I really rest happy to know that it is upgradeable and if the disk acts up, I will just pop a new one in. This is important to me as I have had a few SSD failures. Not M.2 ones, just the plain old regular SSDs.

Anyway, I was a Logic Trainer and had to keep apace with Apple stuff for years, so getting out of that rat race had been great. If it works for some, then great. My fear is that many will head to Apple/Logic because the M1 is impressive at achieving good performance with a low power draw. But perhaps after the initial, I got a Mac, Logic is no a no brainer honeymoon period, some of those will be disappointed as they realise the reality's of living with Apple.

I guess for long time users its hard to get away, but there is no reason for young people to get stuck into that before they even get started.
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Re: next step DAW grown out of Garageband

Postby Bob Bickerton » Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:29 pm

I’ve been a Logic user on a Mac for over 20 years and have had a great run with Macs - though I seem to remember having a few issues with a (steam driven) Power Macintosh 8100 in 1996 - otherwise a smooth run.

Regarding which DAW they’re all good in terms of output quality, so it’s really a question of taking your pick and getting used to your choice. I do think Logic represents excellent value and the benefit of importing GarageBand projects would seem to be a big plus.

What I look for with a computer is something that doesn’t get in the way of my creative workflow and I very much like the Apple environment from that point of view.

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Re: next step DAW grown out of Garageband

Postby MOF » Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:08 am

A - Were Apple being responsible shipping these machines with 256GB in 2020/2021
B - Would you like to buy a used one?
C - While you said you usually hold on to the old machines, I figure it might not be an option any more as you might have to keep it it if people are no willing to buy used disposable devices. It would be a bit like buying used paper plates.

A - 256GB is aimed at light home use, most people don’t tax their computers at all. My 2018 iMac has 500GB and that’s borderline too little for me, but I’m not typical, I’m doing largish Logic projects at 96k and 4K video editing in FCP X.
B - I’ve just bought a refurbished 13” MBP M1 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD to make sure I don’t run out of headroom and storage. That maybe doesn’t answer your question but I don’t think that SSDs are likely to fail early in their life with normal use, but if they did then I wouldn’t have issues buying one from a company that replaces the SSD and gives a 3 month warranty.
C - Same answer as B, also replacement SSDs several years later would be bigger and cheaper to buy and have fitted by a repair shop. So that would then be resellable.
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Re: next step DAW grown out of Garageband

Postby Bob Bickerton » Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:26 am

Probably worth noting that many users would use external drives anyway. All my video and audio projects are on external drives.

If it wasn’t for the fact I recently invested in a high-spec’d Mac Mini I’d be really keen to get into the pro versions of M series processor machines when they come out.

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Re: next step DAW grown out of Garageband

Postby ManFromGlass » Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:01 am

I’ve earned my living using Logic since the Atari days. At one point bought a PC to sync Gigsampler to Logic after I decided to move to Mac. Now it’s mostly all in the box for me with the Mac. I’m running two 2010 fully loaded Mac Pros and I hope they last until the new M1s appear. For me they’ve been a good investment. I’ve reached the end of their upgrade cycle which also means I can’t run the latest Logic. Does this prevent me from writing and mixing music? No.
I also have GarageBand on the ipad and it’s useful now and then and fun.
I was experimenting with 360 degree sound and installed Reaper on the Mac. Cool program, so if you go Mac you can still check it out.
All hard drives die so that’s why we have at least 2 clones of our drives. Right everyone? Gosh it’s suddenly silent in here!
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Re: next step DAW grown out of Garageband

Postby dbfs » Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:06 am

All hard drives die

That is why I take issue with the fact that they are non replaceable in the latest apple devices.

Did you ever replace or upgrade any part of your current long serving setup? You got a good run of it. That is what I have found in the past with Apple machines, but I did often do the odd upgrade here and there as time went on.

The latest macs might be great over time. Who knows, and I do hope so.
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Re: next step DAW grown out of Garageband

Postby uselessoldman » Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:39 pm

You cant even replace a battery on a mac without going to the apple store you can do nothing to them without Apple doing it for you. Took me 30 mins to upgrade and replace the SSD on my Surface Pro !!
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Re: next step DAW grown out of Garageband

Postby Kwackman » Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:08 pm

uselessoldman wrote:You cant even replace a battery on a mac without going to the apple store you can do nothing to them without Apple doing it for you.
https://www.ifixit.com
Specifically
https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Mac
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