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ERS Dimension D plug-in: 50% via DDMF if you're quick!!

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Re: ERS Dimension D plug-in: 50% via DDMF if you're quick!!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:51 pm
by The Elf
desmond wrote:if I pressed the mono button, it sounded a lot closer.
Same here. I wonder if there's something fundamentally 'broken' about the mono/stereo switch in the ERS plug-in...

Re: ERS Dimension D plug-in: 50% via DDMF if you're quick!!

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:52 pm
by Tomás Mulcahy
Very interesting. On the Ozone Imager meter, the real Dimension D seems to register more excursions below 0 than the ERS. The UAD goes below 0 just as much, but excurses to +1 a bit more. The Arturia seems to be exactly the same as the UAD in that regard.

Martin your width adjusted version actually sounds wider to me than the real Dimension D!

Here's the Arturia version using preset button 2 and roughly level matched to Elf's real one:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a1tepz932wg72 ... D.wav?dl=0

Given the similarity with UAD and Arturia, I wonder if it's possible that Elf's Dimension D needs a (very tweaky) service? Or did ERS model their's off schematics? Those could have an error. Or an out-of-cal Dimension D? Or is it a bug?

I don't know. But it's fascinating!

Re: ERS Dimension D plug-in: 50% via DDMF if you're quick!!

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:59 pm
by desmond
I forgot Arturia did one of these!

Re: ERS Dimension D plug-in: 50% via DDMF if you're quick!!

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:14 pm
by The Elf
I'm also now wondering if what we are hearing is partly caused by the round-trip delay to/from the hardware...

Re: ERS Dimension D plug-in: 50% via DDMF if you're quick!!

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:22 am
by Martin Walker
Tomás Mulcahy wrote:Martin your width adjusted version actually sounds wider to me than the real Dimension D!

I suspect in my efforts to achieve the hyper-wide results of The Elf's DD hardware I may have over-egged the width enhancement. I was monitoring it via the Stereo Image display in MetricAB, and did originally set bx_solo to 150% stereo width, but later tweaked it to 200%, and listening again now I suspect 150% is probably more 'correct' - well done Tomás!

Tomás Mulcahy wrote:Here's the Arturia version using preset button 2 and roughly level matched to Elf's real one:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a1tepz932wg72 ... D.wav?dl=0

I hadn't brought up the Arturia version here, but given our discussions I have listened to its demos since my first post. Yes it offers wider results, but this is perhaps because it also offers a non-standard stereo width control that defaults to 'S' (stereo) but can be shrunk down to mono or enhanced to super-stereo (much like my bx_solo tweak to the ERS version).

The Elf wrote:I'm also now wondering if what we are hearing is partly caused by the round-trip delay to/from the hardware...

I wouldn't have thought so if the direct and 'dimensioned' parts are mixed together by the DD hardware (insert routing), although if you've got it on a aux send/return loop I suppose that's possible that the dry and wet signals are interacting in some way.

I'm just hoping that there will be a future update from DDMF to tweak the anti-phase component levels of the chorus and thus increase the width to more closely match the hardware. I still love my new ERS DimD purchase though - it's perfect for my most typical requirement, which is adding some width and subtle movement to mono sounds rather than a chorus (by the way, my current go-to for more subtle chorus is Fuse Audio Labs' Chorus-65, modeled on the DOD FX65 Stereo Chorus pedal).


Martin

Re: ERS Dimension D plug-in: 50% via DDMF if you're quick!!

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:27 am
by The Elf
Martin Walker wrote:
The Elf wrote:I'm also now wondering if what we are hearing is partly caused by the round-trip delay to/from the hardware...
I wouldn't have thought so if the direct and 'dimensioned' parts are mixed together by the DD hardware (insert routing),
Doh! Of course! I *usually* use it on a send, hence my getting myself confused. In the examples above it's placed as an insert. :headbang:

Re: ERS Dimension D plug-in: 50% via DDMF if you're quick!!

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:49 pm
by Martin Walker
The Elf wrote:In the examples above it's placed as an insert. :headbang:

So there can be no unintended delays between dry and wet , and your demo audio examples of the Dimension D hardware remain valid.


Martin

Re: ERS Dimension D plug-in: 50% via DDMF if you're quick!!

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:11 pm
by The Elf
The UAD version sounds very close to my hardware. I hear something just a bit more obviously cyclic, which is what I use the DD to avoid. Not at all bad, though.

Re: ERS Dimension D plug-in: 50% via DDMF if you're quick!!

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:27 am
by Martin Walker
Well I never, and after all our combined efforts too! ;)

In response to a user query about the ERS DimD, Christian from DDMF has just released version 1.3.1 to replace his 1.3.0 DDMF initial release.

Apparently 1.3.0 included half-finished ERS changes to improve the overall sound, but which unfortunately reduced the width.

Today's DDMF 1.3.1 release reverts to the previous ERS code, and although it's still displayed internally as 1.3.0, the width has shot back up - hooray!


Martin

Re: ERS Dimension D plug-in: 50% via DDMF if you're quick!!

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:48 am
by The Elf
Good news... Err... How did you find out about this? I've had no correspondence and I see no details on the web site.

Anyway, I'll give it a whirl later today. :thumbup:

Re: ERS Dimension D plug-in: 50% via DDMF if you're quick!!

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:47 am
by The Elf

Re: ERS Dimension D plug-in: 50% via DDMF if you're quick!!

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:48 am
by Zukan
So, we buying it or what?

I have been interested in the DD for ages. FWIW I use a phaser to achieve stereo width but then that's a whole other can....

Re: ERS Dimension D plug-in: 50% via DDMF if you're quick!!

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:51 am
by The Elf
I'm afraid it's a 'no' from me, mate. The UAD sounds much closer.

The ERS sounds like the pan controls are stuck at 60%.

Re: ERS Dimension D plug-in: 50% via DDMF if you're quick!!

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:02 pm
by Tomás Mulcahy
FWIW seeing as the Arturia I already have seems to be identical to the UAD, I don't need another one.

But if you want widening, the Dimension D is magical.

On a slightly related note-
Plugin Alliance have a sale on, $29 for any one plugin. The Schoeps Mono Upmix works better than Ozone Imager I or II. It actually does a convincing job of bringing out the existing ambience on a mono track. Worked incredibly well on some jazz piano I recorded back in 1996. Had to be mono at the time as I only had a 4 track.

I did some other trickery with Melodyne to straighten the tempo, MIDI the bass and add different drums. Not much of a tune but it was fun!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kj1oj63qp1ccf ... s.mp3?dl=0

Re: ERS Dimension D plug-in: 50% via DDMF if you're quick!!

PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:42 pm
by Martin Walker
The Elf wrote:Good news... Err... How did you find out about this? I've had no correspondence and I see no details on the web site.

Anyway, I'll give it a whirl later today. :thumbup:

I kept my nose to the ground, and discovered it on the KVR forum:

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopi ... 6&start=16

Post from Rat 41:
"Meanwhile I got an answer from Christian (DDMF):
"yes, Harrie was working on some adjustments before he handed over the code to me... which will ultimately improve the sound, but it just wasn't finished yet. I have just uploaded v1.3.1 which, soundwise, should correspond to an earlier version. I hope you like it better!"

1.3.1 does improve the sound (the smearing is mostly gone), but it still doesn't sound as wide as it did before especially in the 4th mode. There seems to be a high cut filter on the wet signal now, which wasn't there before."


Which seems to confirm what you're finding - it's an improvement, but it also shows that DDMF are continuing to work on the code :thumbup:

I'm still happy I bought it.


Martin