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Studying in SAE Institute (Liverpool) it's worth?

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Re: Studying in SAE Institute (Liverpool) it's worth?

Postby zenguitar » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:12 am

Kiopo wrote:Written, analytical, reflective and research skills up to level 6. Routes into other creative industries and basic training in them. Work placements. Clear paths into related and unrelated postgraduate courses. A varied portfolio. Work related skills as expected from any undergrad degree. Etc.

Yes, we get that. In principle a degree is a degree is a degree. And, in an ideal world, a 2.1 in Ceramics from the Plymouth College of Art validated by the University of Plymouth should carry as much weight as a 2.1 in Law from King's College Cambridge.

But we don't live in an ideal world. Employers, and let's be perfectly clear about this, degrees only matter to potential employers and Universities, self-evidently don't regard Ceramics as valuable as Law and don't regard Plymouth College of Art as valuable as King's College Cambridge. Of course, it could be prejudice and the two degrees actually mean that the candidate with the 2.1 in Ceramics from Plymouth is just as capable as the candidate with the 2.1 in Law from Cambridge. But, in general, employers aren't stupid.

You can be certain that if Price Waterhouse Coopers could be certain that a degree from SAE Institute Liverpool was worth the paper it was printed on, Music Tech would be the gateway to management consultancy.

Andy :beamup:
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Re: Studying in SAE Institute (Liverpool) it's worth?

Postby Still Vibrations » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:12 am

I have worked with lots of dancers. One dance college (which some claimed is in the top three in the world) had a full page advert on the back of national dance magazines stating it was "The place where achievers are made" accompanied by photographs of two ex-students who were in supposedly high flying positions. One girl worked for a national ballet company as education officer and was so badly paid that her barrister boyfriend kept her; the other slept his way into a job as director of a dance agency and got immediately sacked for incompetence - he is now a buy to let landlord.
Music technology is the same as the dance world in my opinion. The college is a business that sells degrees and false hope. Education is callous world where ruthless administrators contend to get as much money for as little in return as possible.
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Re: Studying in SAE Institute (Liverpool) it's worth?

Postby Kiopo » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:43 pm

zenguitar wrote:
Kiopo wrote:Written, analytical, reflective and research skills up to level 6. Routes into other creative industries and basic training in them. Work placements. Clear paths into related and unrelated postgraduate courses. A varied portfolio. Work related skills as expected from any undergrad degree. Etc.

Yes, we get that. In principle a degree is a degree is a degree. And, in an ideal world, a 2.1 in Ceramics from the Plymouth College of Art validated by the University of Plymouth should carry as much weight as a 2.1 in Law from King's College Cambridge.

But we don't live in an ideal world. Employers, and let's be perfectly clear about this, degrees only matter to potential employers and Universities, self-evidently don't regard Ceramics as valuable as Law and don't regard Plymouth College of Art as valuable as King's College Cambridge. Of course, it could be prejudice and the two degrees actually mean that the candidate with the 2.1 in Ceramics from Plymouth is just as capable as the candidate with the 2.1 in Law from Cambridge. But, in general, employers aren't stupid.

You can be certain that if Price Waterhouse Coopers could be certain that a degree from SAE Institute Liverpool was worth the paper it was printed on, Music Tech would be the gateway to management consultancy.

Andy :beamup:

Well SAE don’t award degrees, students get a degree from Middlesex University. I don’t really see the point in what you posted, the same would be true of a sound tech degree at any of the institutions mentioned in the thread. If you’re going to compare it to subjects like law at Russell Group unis, that’s an unrealistic comparison of both the type of student and the outcomes. Universities are ranked by metrics as well as historical prestige, that’s a fact across any course anywhere. It doesn’t reduce the value that is added to career prospects and earnings by someone getting one. As for management, a cursory search brings up examples of students who studied there and progressed into that, directly or through MBAs.
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Re: Studying in SAE Institute (Liverpool) it's worth?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:57 pm

Valid points, perhaps, but 10 months for a reply? Really? ;-)
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Re: Studying in SAE Institute (Liverpool) it's worth?

Postby Kiopo » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:18 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Valid points, perhaps, but 10 months for a reply? Really? ;-)

:tongue: I don’t come on here very often, and there’s a permanence to internet forum posts, so it’s worth replying for the benefit of anyone else who comes across it.
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Re: Studying in SAE Institute (Liverpool) it's worth?

Postby James Perrett » Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:04 pm

Kiopo wrote:Universities are ranked by metrics as well as historical prestige, that’s a fact across any course anywhere. It doesn’t reduce the value that is added to career prospects and earnings by someone getting one.

I've been on interview panels and I would have to say that having a degree from the wrong university is definitely seen as a negative. It won't disqualify an otherwise outstanding candidate but it won't help if there are two otherwise equal candidates.
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Re: Studying in SAE Institute (Liverpool) it's worth?

Postby Kiopo » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:09 pm

James Perrett wrote:
Kiopo wrote:Universities are ranked by metrics as well as historical prestige, that’s a fact across any course anywhere. It doesn’t reduce the value that is added to career prospects and earnings by someone getting one.

I've been on interview panels and I would have to say that having a degree from the wrong university is definitely seen as a negative. It won't disqualify an otherwise outstanding candidate but it won't help if there are two otherwise equal candidates.

I agree with that, of course. You could also say the same about having the wrong degree from the right university. My point is more that the issue of ranking / prestige is quite separate to what was being discussed here and applies whether you study at UWL, Kings, Cambridge, LIPA or anywhere else. It doesn’t take away from the fact that degrees as a whole give you more opportunities in a wider range of fields, and more earning potential. So, a sound course that is a degree with the potential to move into other areas / industries, or more importantly specialise further through postgraduate study afterward (very common), is not the same as vocational courses in terms of potential value. But people treat it like that.
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Re: Studying in SAE Institute (Liverpool) it's worth?

Postby James Perrett » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:53 pm

It is perfectly possible to do an MSc and a PhD without having done a degree first although you would need to be able to demonstrate a strong interest in the subject and the ability to work at the required level. In our field, the most important pre-requisite for any budding audio engineer is to be able to show strong proof of your interest - either through recordings you've made, equipment you've built or live events that you've worked on.
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Re: Studying in SAE Institute (Liverpool) it's worth?

Postby Kiopo » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:46 pm

James Perrett wrote:It is perfectly possible to do an MSc and a PhD without having done a degree first although you would need to be able to demonstrate a strong interest in the subject and the ability to work at the required level. In our field, the most important pre-requisite for any budding audio engineer is to be able to show strong proof of your interest - either through recordings you've made, equipment you've built or live events that you've worked on.

Are you sure you aren’t thinking of an integrated Masters, e.g MSci ?

It is by far the exception to have someone without a degree go straight into a masters. I run one and would not take a student without a degree unless they were already a professional in the field with a very good level of experience.

Even at undergraduate level it is unusual to have someone without formal quals.

Portfolio is key, yep. One advantage of a course in the area is the development of a portfolio and access to facilities / networking / masterclasses. You can do it all on your own, it just gets you there quicker in many cases.
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Re: Studying in SAE Institute (Liverpool) it's worth?

Postby James Perrett » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:59 pm

Kiopo wrote:Are you sure you aren’t thinking of an integrated Masters, e.g MSci ?

No - in my last job I had a colleague who went from an HNC to and MSc and then PhD. I also started on the same route although starting a commercial studio at the same time didn't really help so I gave up the MSc part way through.
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Re: Studying in SAE Institute (Liverpool) it's worth?

Postby The Red Bladder » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:43 pm

As a former employer of academics, you only pay attention to PhDs if they were obtained young - before the age of 30. Old people with PhDs are not really interesting as employees.

As for academic achievement in general, I hope to be employing many media types (sound, lighting, film, post, etc., etc., etc.) in the near future and there, it is ALL about portfolio. In other words, I'm not interested in your sheepskin, it's your YouTube Channel and/or show-reel I want to see!
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