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Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby Agharta » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:36 pm

The Red Bladder wrote:
Agharta wrote:So the annual costs for full price and paid price are:
1. 1979 - £3,276 / £2,457
2. 1990 - £2,860 / £2,860
3. 2017 - £120 / £0.

There's more money in the music business today, than at any time in history - and YOU, yes you are spending more on music today than you ever spent back in the 70s and 80s.
The money is in your license fee, in every product you buy that was advertised on TV or radio, it is in every concert ticket you buy, it is in every movie ticket you buy, it is in every piece of building materials or stick of wood, every nut and bolt, every car and even the petrol or Diesel in the tank and it is definitely in your next visit to a hairdresser.

I doubt I spend £3,276 in total on those things per annum so according to your theory over 100% of my related spending goes to the musician with a link to those products. :headbang:
Have you been smoking the droppings of Schrödinger's cat? :bouncy:
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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby artzmusic » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:27 pm

The Red Bladder wrote:
artzmusic wrote: and he was signing crap bands.


One of his troubles in promoting was indeed trying to give newer acts a venue to play. And there were established acts from other cities which weren't necessary popular here yet. Being idealistic in terms of helping the community also doesn't do any good for the pocket.

Social media has certainly changed things for bands in recent years and would be one of those things a promoter would look at first it seems.

On a side note, here in the States there is pending a bill to modernize the way songwriters are paid. https://soundroyalties.com/nmpa-music-modernization-act-petition/

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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby Sam Spoons » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:55 pm

A quote from that site "Our programs are designed for those who earn at least $5,000 in royalties annually."

If you're already receiving $5000 a year in royalty payments you are probably fairly well established so they are not really taking any chances are they.
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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby CS70 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:02 pm

artzmusic wrote:I have a concert promoter friend who has dropped out of the business recently. Bands are not wanting to play without a substantial guarantee. If he goes that route he ends up losing because they don't bring in enough at the door. But the bands won't play for a cut of the door because they suspect they won't make much.

Deduce from this that these musicians think way too much of themselves and overvalue the appeal of their performance for the public. Or they don't network enough to drum up interest and think that the venue's advert will be do the work for them.

There are other factors too, of course, that affect the outcome. But if a band starts out playing for the door cut, then they'll work harder to make that cut worthwhile. Their take will be proportional to their work and how their presentation grabs the audience. Somewhere down the road they can name their price. But, like all businesses, you may have to go a bit hungry for a while making these investments.


My friend is much happier these days!

Rick


I really can't agree. Promoting is a skill, which is acquired by starting with a talent/inclination - bit of manager, bit of a salesman - which is very different than the musical one. Very often, I'd say, even quite in conflict. A few people possess both, but most don't.

If it was so easy for a musician to promote, there would no need of promoters. The skills and asset required to be successful aren't trivial.. they require as much learning and working as any musical skill . To make a guitar analogy, there's the Leo Fenders, and there's the George Fullertons. Fireworks happen when they meet..
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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby BigRedX » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:11 pm

I don't get the obsession with Spotify unless your musical tastes are fairly mainstream.

I've dabbled a couple of times by request of the bands I'm in to supply Spotify playlists of music I am interested in as part of their social media campaigns. Unfortunately both times I've had to severely compromise my choice of tracks due to the restricted nature of Spotify's catalogue.

I have to admit that it do have fairly esoteric tastes, but nowhere near as obscure as many of my musically inclined friends, yet somewhere between a quarter and a third of my record/CD collection is not available on Spotify, and two of my major musical interests - post-punk electronica and J-Rock are very poorly represented.

Spotify need to try much harder and be a lot more inclusive in their choice of available music if they want to be taken seriously by me.
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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby CS70 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:26 pm

BigRedX wrote:I don't get the obsession with Spotify unless your musical tastes are fairly mainstream.

Well I guess where most of the money is, it's the mainstream. It's a bit of the definition innit?
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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby Agharta » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:28 pm

BigRedX wrote:Spotify need to try much harder and be a lot more inclusive in their choice of available music if they want to be taken seriously by me.

Isn’t it more likely that the Artists choose not to be on there rather than anything else? For some that would be a badge of honour even. :geek:

I don’t listen to much chart music but have found plenty of good jazz, blues, ambient, early music , meditative music etc most of which isn’t exactly mainstream. If I made a playlist of my more obscure stuff from small labels then I doubt much of it would be there which mirrors record shops really.

I wonder how the other big 3 streaming services compare?
Bands having exclusive deals with one streaming service is not good in my eyes or ears even! :D
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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby xubuntu » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:34 am

No it is not possible possible to make money from music unless you are moby or shakira.
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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby Alba » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:45 pm

"Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?"

The 'any more' in the title implies that there was a time when making a living from music was like falling off a log.

A very few have made a living in some kind of different way to that which is available now: ie; selling records. Fewer made the big mansion bucks from selling millions of records and merchandise.

Its a lot easier to make some pin money now than it ever was but its not going to do much more than cover your costs if you're lucky.

What you can do though is make a life.

More appropriate question on a site that survives on advertising, reviews of gear for sale and techniques for using that gear and so on, is...

Is it possible to make music from money any more? Cos most of the stuff and info one needs to make music costs nothing or can be bought or made for buttons.
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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby blinddrew » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:20 pm

Alba wrote:Cos most of the stuff and info one needs to make music costs nothing or can be bought or made for buttons.
Quoted for truth! :)
I'd argue that there's never been a better time to be a creator.

Monetizing that creation has never been easy, it's just a different set of challenges.
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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby Kinh » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:57 am

I disagree with much of what's been said because:
If you get into any industry, especially the arts simply to make money then you're probably not gonna. I think people put too much emphasis on money to define themselves. Like it's the only way to measure self worth and men tend to do this more than women because of how society has shaped us.

But good music is the only thing that = money. And how do you make good music? by working hard, improving your skills. I think that's why people aren't getting opportunities as much. Your objective should be to produce quality, however long it takes to get there and not trick yourself in thinking your ready when you aren't.
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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby johnny h » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:36 am

Kinh wrote:I disagree with much of what's been said because:
If you get into any industry, especially the arts simply to make money then you're probably not gonna. I think people put too much emphasis on money to define themselves. Like it's the only way to measure self worth and men tend to do this more than women because of how society has shaped us.

But good music is the only thing that = money. And how do you make good music? by working hard, improving your skills. I think that's why people aren't getting opportunities as much. Your objective should be to produce quality, however long it takes to get there and not trick yourself in thinking your ready when you aren't.
Finally some sense!

While there are countless examples of people being overhyped or unfairly ignored, most of the people who are trying to "make it" in music just aren't that good and that's why nobody wants to listen to their music or see them perform.
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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby BikerDude » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:57 pm

Well to illustrate the real issue.
The band Blackberry Smoke has announced that they are coming out with a new album.
Their last Album debuted at number one on both the Country and Americana billboard charts. Basically you can't do better. Total sales in the US were 48,000.
Once you take out productions costs, the cut of the label and all the other stuff I guarantee that they would make more money working at Walmart.
They remain a band by touring. That's what pays the bills.
The recent changes to streaming royalties may make a very big difference but only time will tell.

As it is now. In terms of being a recording artist. Even if you succeed it's more or less a dry hole. Except for the handful of mega acts. Beiber, Gaga that ilk.
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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby Guest » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:45 pm

BikerDude wrote:As it is now. In terms of being a recording artist. Even if you succeed it's more or less a dry hole. Except for the handful of mega acts. Beiber, Gaga that ilk.

And that's an important point. A few years ago a classical saxophone CD I wrote the music for was featured in the most respected classical saxophone magazine in the world. They didn't review CDs, they only wrote about CDs they recommended. The CD was described by their specialist classical music reviewer as:
"This is a thoroughly enjoyable collaboration of saxophonist, pianist, and composer who all worked exceedingly well together. In addition, there are several outstanding new additions to the saxophone library .... This is definitely must get CD"
It resulted in no sales whatsoever. I don't understand how excellent reviews seem to have no effect.
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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby Kinh » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:53 am

BikerDude wrote:Well to illustrate the real issue.
The band Blackberry Smoke has announced that they are coming out with a new album.
Their last Album debuted at number one on both the Country and Americana billboard charts. Basically you can't do better. Total sales in the US were 48,000.
Once you take out productions costs, the cut of the label and all the other stuff I guarantee that they would make more money working at Walmart.
They remain a band by touring. That's what pays the bills.
The recent changes to streaming royalties may make a very big difference but only time will tell.

As it is now. In terms of being a recording artist. Even if you succeed it's more or less a dry hole. Except for the handful of mega acts. Beiber, Gaga that ilk.
I think you need to sell a few more records than 48k to have a #1.
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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby Alba » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:52 am

No, there are #1 albums with less than 10k sales.
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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby ReadySaltedChris » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:32 pm

PRS distribute about 600 million £££ annually so maybe it is possible to make money from music. That can't all be going to Paul McCartney, surely!
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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby Wonks » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:43 pm

ReadySaltedChris wrote:PRS distribute about 600 million £££ annually so maybe it is possible to make money from music. That can't all be going to Paul McCartney, surely!

Surely at least half of that goes to you and The Commander! ;)
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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby ReadySaltedChris » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:44 pm

Wonks wrote:
ReadySaltedChris wrote:PRS distribute about 600 million £££ annually so maybe it is possible to make money from music. That can't all be going to Paul McCartney, surely!

Surely at least half of that goes to you and The Commander! ;)

:)
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Re: Is it actually possible to make money from music anymore?

Postby ManFromGlass » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:50 pm

I don't have the facts to back this up but I have heard that the bulk of PRS distributions go to film and tv composers rather than for album sales. Years ago it was the reverse.
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