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Labour party policy on music

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Labour party policy on music

Postby Gone To Lunch » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:23 am

I am a member of the Labour Party who have now opened a policy consultation process for us members that runs until June 24th.

The arts are supposedly included in the consultation paper ‘Environment Energy and Culture: A greener Britain’ - however it does not actually contain anything about music at all.

I personally believe a new Labour government is an increasingly likely possibility, so this is an opportunity to influence government policy, or actually create it in this case.

Please post your music business policy suggestions in this thread.
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby Still Vibrations » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:45 am

I don't believe such things achieve anything. Any future government has got far more important things to worry about than music or the arts, which usually take care of themselves anyway.
This comment is not meant to be political, I feel the same way whichever party is going to be elected.
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby wireman » Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:19 am

Ok, so I go to the relevant site...

https://www.policyforum.labour.org.uk/commissions/environment/a-greener-britain

This document has the word Culture in various headings but that is about it.
And to download it to search for any illusive content relating to culture requires a login?

Culture does not seem to be high on the list of priorities.

I'll set you a super-simple challenge. How can we change the copyright law to allow a musician to use a photocopy of music they already own to make it practical to practice and perform without a page-turner or needing to purchase multiple copies of the original to arrange side-by-side?
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby OneWorld » Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:39 am

Thing is, it was the Labour Party that imposed the 'public house enjoyment of entertainment tax'

When they brought in that law it deemed no pub could have more than 3 performers, otherwise they employed that ever creative solution to every problem (if indeed there were one) - impose a tax, if it moves, breathes, sings, plays etc tax it

And of course there was the time Gonrod Brown stood up in the Houses of Parliament and proudly proclaimed he was giving pensioners a pay rise - what was it £0.03 a week.

And believe it or not, I am a staunch socialist, but have come to understand that whatever blather they come out with, the whole lot of them are self serving idlers that go into public service for private gain - when have you ever seen an MP in the dole queue? They only have one skill, and it is a very lucrative skill - they can talk
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:45 am

Gents, I'm happy for a respectful and reasoned discussion about shaping a (shadow) government policy document about the music industry to proceed in the (public) business forum. However, if this turns into a 'my political persuasion is better than your political persuasion' argument I will move it into the (private) music lounge forum... And I dare say it will probably get locked after the inevitable flaming shortly thereafter! ;-)

Please keep on-topic.

H
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby Dave B » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:39 am

A few years ago there was a move (Digital Copyright bill???) to actually enshrine 'fair use' into law. It's just a formalisation of the thing that we all do anyway - 'ripping' something for our own personal consumption via another playback medium. It got dropped off that bill and we are still in limbo here (unless the EU have finally implemented it and we're covered with that). If someone could please bring some sensible debate to fair use of something that we've already purchase, then that would be nice.
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby jrbcm » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:53 am

A touch heavy-handed Hugh. No need for the water cannons quite yet.
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby Gone To Lunch » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:54 am

wireman wrote:Ok, so I go to the relevant site...

https://www.policyforum.labour.org.uk/commissions/environment/a-greener-britain

This document has the word Culture in various headings but that is about it.
And to download it to search for any illusive content relating to culture requires a login?

Culture does not seem to be high on the list of priorities.


Absolutely !

That is why I started the thread !

There is precisely nothing in the policy document about music at all, or indeed culture. So who better to fill the gaps than the great and the good of this most excellent forum ?
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:01 pm

jrbcm wrote:A touch heavy-handed Hugh. No need for the water cannons quite yet.

:-D always better to head things off at the pass politely before the water canons are needed...
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby Gone To Lunch » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:14 pm

wireman wrote:
I'll set you a super-simple challenge. How can we change the copyright law to allow a musician to use a photocopy of music they already own to make it practical to practice and perform without a page-turner or needing to purchase multiple copies of the original to arrange side-by-side?


I don't have a direct answer to this interesting issue.

However there are other areas of copyright law where I think govt policy could perhaps make a difference :

1. Supply pricing. Currently my stream payments on CD Baby are typically between $0.001 and $0.0001; however if I was getting between $0.10 and $0.01 per stream on CD Baby, I would be a lot less concerned about private duplication.

2. Outlawing unfair web contracts. "Upon uploading you will retain all your intellectual property rights whilst also assigning to us the rights to exploit your music, as if it was ours, as if you had in fact assigned the rights, whenever, however, and in whatever way he choose, across the universe and beyond in perpetuity, without paying you anything ever under any circumstances.."

3. Outlawing unfair broadcast contracts. It should be made illegal for BBC and others broadcasters to insist on the publishing of any music they seek to use.

If we don't ask we can't get.
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby Gone To Lunch » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:20 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Gents, I'm happy for a respectful and reasoned discussion about shaping a (shadow) government policy document about the music industry to proceed in the (public) business forum. However, if this turns into a 'my political persuasion is better than your political persuasion' argument I will move it into the (private) music lounge forum... And I dare say it will probably get locked after the inevitable flaming shortly thereafter! ;-)

Please keep on-topic.

H

Indeed.

Initially I intended to post in the lounge, but then decided to got for the business forum because I think it is about current and future business practice and issues.

And there are many in here who have a lot of wisdom and experience of these matters.
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby Sam Inglis » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:32 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote: before the water canons are needed...

Pachelbel's water canons?

Back on topic, I personally would like to see a future government do more to support the rights of copyright holders against the likes of YouTube, to ensure that composers and musicians are fairly paid for their work.

But possibly the most important thing a future government could do would be to restore music to the national curriculum in schools.
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby ManFromGlass » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:47 pm

To make changes at Govt levels they need to see how our concerns translate to either votes or money. In Canada there have been a number of studies showing that Arts & Culture is the fourth largest sector here translating to billions of dollars changing hands. Every dollar an arts council puts into the arts results in $1.25 in tax revenues. I would love to know where I could get 25 cents on every dollar I manage to tuck away.

There are organizations like the Screen Composers Guild of Canada that have been fighting for a place at the decision table for copyright and streaming revenue issues who are now being invited and consulted. The SCGC is in regular contact with other like minded organizations around the globe as the feeling is that there is nothing less than the survival of our industry which is at stake.

I heard there was an organization in Europe that was doing similar but perhaps there is no equivalent in the UK?
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby Gone To Lunch » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:41 pm

ManFromGlass wrote:
I heard there was an organization in Europe that was doing similar but perhaps there is no equivalent in the UK?


It could be UK Music ? See here :

https://www.ukmusic.org/
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby wireman » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:57 pm

Dave B wrote:A few years ago there was a move (Digital Copyright bill???) to actually enshrine 'fair use' into law. It's just a formalisation of the thing that we all do anyway - 'ripping' something for our own personal consumption via another playback medium. It got dropped off that bill and we are still in limbo here (unless the EU have finally implemented it and we're covered with that). If someone could please bring some sensible debate to fair use of something that we've already purchase, then that would be nice.

The music industry fought back and the High Court bought the argument that this new right in copyright law would make them lose more money and it was the Government's job to prove that this was negligible.

At least we didn't end up with a blank media levy; see here for a different take on this that might be more in line with views of music creators on this forum than mine.

I didn't raise this particular issue becuase I don't think anyone can be bothered to address it again for various reasons.
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby blinddrew » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:28 pm

Personally I'd like to see music re-introduced to the curriculum and suitably prioritised.
I'd also like to see a fact-based discussion around reviewing copyright and fair use.
Neither of these things will happen.
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby CS70 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:56 pm

wireman wrote:I'll set you a super-simple challenge. How can we change the copyright law to allow a musician to use a photocopy of music they already own to make it practical to practice and perform without a page-turner or needing to purchase multiple copies of the original to arrange side-by-side?

Well, that depends on the rights he has purchased. For example, if you buy a book, you purchase the right to read that copy. If you want two copies (one at regular house and one the summer cabin, say) you've got to purchase two copies, even if you already own one.

If you own a score in a book and you need a single-sheet version, you're gonna need to buy one.

"fair use" is not the right of producing copies of a work because your purchased one physical instance.
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby Gone To Lunch » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:13 pm

blinddrew wrote:Personally I'd like to see music re-introduced to the curriculum and suitably prioritised.
I'd also like to see a fact-based discussion around reviewing copyright and fair use.
Neither of these things will happen.

Me too.

The reason I started this thread is because I want to help making both of them happen.
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby blinddrew » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:15 pm

CS70 wrote:"fair use" is not the right of producing copies of a work because your purchased one physical instance.
The thing is 'fair use' isn't particularly well defined. In some cases, for educational reasons perhaps, the example you give could be classed as fair use. But you'd have to go to court to argue it if you were challenged by the rights holder.
In the UK we have 'fair dealing' which is even less clear.
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Re: Labour party policy on music

Postby blinddrew » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:16 pm

Gone To Lunch wrote:
blinddrew wrote:Personally I'd like to see music re-introduced to the curriculum and suitably prioritised.
I'd also like to see a fact-based discussion around reviewing copyright and fair use.
Neither of these things will happen.

Me too.

The reason I started this thread is because I want to help making both of them happen.
Best of luck. And I'm not being flippant there, i mean it.
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