You are here

Stairway to Heaven

Advice on everything from getting your music heard to setting up a label and royalties.

Stairway to Heaven

Postby Folderol » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:34 pm

Just seen a report that this is back in court again
Talk about the unkillable zombie :(
User avatar
Folderol
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7064
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:00 am
Location: Rochester, UK
Yes. I am that Linux nut.

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby resistorman » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:03 am

Well, it's a pretty blatant appropriation of Randy California's riff. But Stairway just uses it as a jump-off point. Too bad he's not around and Zep could just throw him a few bucks... do the right thing. I hate it when heirs sue... what do they have to do with any of it?
User avatar
resistorman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:00 am
Location: Asheville NC
future26.com

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby blinddrew » Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:42 am

Side effect of the purpose of copyright being twisted into a culture of ownership.
Shame. The only winners are the lawyers.
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5105
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby blinddrew » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:59 pm

Hmmm, interesting update on the case here: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20181 ... ines.shtml looking at the 9th circuit decision and why it might not be such a balls up as first thought.
Warning, it's a long read and just the first of two parts.

TL:DR 9th circuit is reviewing its guidance on making sure that the distinction between proof of copying, similarity and copyrightable content are properly weighed.

[EDIT - for a given definition of 'interesting'.]
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5105
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby BJG145 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:49 pm

I haven't read the story, but it reminds me of Elon Musk telling that mug designer it would be "kinda lame" to sue.
User avatar
BJG145
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3417
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:00 am

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby blinddrew » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:49 pm

Certainly feels that way to me, but anyway, here's part two: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20181 ... dict.shtml
tl:dr - poor jury instructions lead to poor jury verdicts.
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5105
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:15 pm

Been reading about this, and the issue of whether there can be copyright on chord sequences. What set me off was this Facebook page (and apologies to those of you who are sensible not to 'do' arsebook) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC5ElmCBUB4&feature=youtu.be

He's not a mate though we have met and I'm not entirely sure he's right about the chord sequence thing. what do we think?
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7077
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby blinddrew » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:19 pm

First one: if you're covering a song without a sync license it can be pulled.
Second one: not sure what he means by international copyright law. There's no such thing, though a lot of countries have signed up to the Berne convention. Youtube operates under US law and, see the above blogs, it's not as simple as saying that chord progressions aren't copyrightable.
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5105
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:52 pm

That is pretty much what I thought. I'm pretty sure the "G///D///Em///C///" sequence from, say, "Wagon Wheel" could not be copyright 'cos it occurs in so many other songs but the specific 'riff' from Stairway/Taurus is fairly distinctive. Mind you almost any guitarist will have noodled the Taurus version simply 'cos it just falls under the fingers. If somebody could find a classical piece with that same Am/descending bass line in it (and I'm damn sure there will be one) that should blow any prior claim out of the water.

However, WRT Gypsy Jazz backings, I can probably record and post the chord sequences with bass lines without fear or favour where they are not unique to a specific song (and the chances of that not being the case are fairly slim). In the unlikely situation of a song with a truly unique chord sequence then I get that he may be in trouble.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7077
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby Wonks » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:04 pm

There is a classical piece that is very similar to the Taurus/S2H riff. Can't remember what it is now but it was going round on Facebook the last time this came up.
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 6095
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Now even grumpier than Ivan in his heyday.

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:07 pm

I don't suppose the lawyers will want to find it before the fees have racked up to a reasonable level though.......
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7077
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby Wonks » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:09 pm

Yes, mentioned in the previous S2H/Spirit thread. Turlough O'Carolan (1670-1738) and Carolan's Dream.

https://musictales.club/article/celtic-baroque-roots-stairway-heaven
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 6095
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Now even grumpier than Ivan in his heyday.

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:40 pm

The progression it there but the specific sequence is more different to Stairway/Taurus that they are to each other. But, to a guitar player, it is such an obvious progression that I'm sure many of us discovered it even before hearing Stairway (or Taurus...... or even before either was written).

I'll bet there is something even closer out there.....

BTW one of my favourite tunes is Sí Beag, Sí Mór or O'Carolan's Concerto (which, according to Wiki, he 'borrowed' from a traditional tune called "The Bonnie Cuckoo").
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7077
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby Folderol » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:10 am

Personally I can't believe any progression hasn't been discovered/invented multiple times over the millennia. This whole issue is exactly the sort of thing that gives copyright a bad name in the minds of the younger generation and gives them the idea (wrongly) that all copyright holders are just money grabbing sharks.
User avatar
Folderol
Jedi Poster
Posts: 7064
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:00 am
Location: Rochester, UK
Yes. I am that Linux nut.

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby CS70 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:36 am

Folderol wrote:Personally I can't believe any progression hasn't been discovered/invented multiple times over the millennia. This whole issue is exactly the sort of thing that gives copyright a bad name in the minds of the younger generation and gives them the idea (wrongly) that all copyright holders are just money grabbing sharks.

Completely agree. The entire thing is ridiculous.
User avatar
CS70
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2856
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Oslo, Norway
Silver Spoon - Check out our latest video  and the FB page

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby blinddrew » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:11 am

True dat. As young people apparently say...

Thinking back to the Django one, he'll probably be in the whole mess of pre-1974 state-level copyright as well.

The whole shebang (i was going to use a much naughtier word) needs a complete overhaul for the digital era, and that means international consistency as well.
Which also means it will never happen.
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5105
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby Alba » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:52 am

I was very close to a very successful punk? band back in the day, and I can tell you that they were of the opinion that the 'great composers' had pretty much explored every conceivable combination and they ripped them off with gay abandon continually.

What next?

Will authors take other authors to court because they wrote ' he walked into the room' or 'it was raining and the grass glistened in the morning light' ?

If someone wanted to take Zep to court there are far easier and clear cut ways to do it, but they obviously just don't have the money to do so.

Music is a journey, a progression of thoughts and styles and sounds and they keep coming up over and over again.
Alba
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1106
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:00 am
Location: Airstrip 1, Eurasia
 

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby CS70 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:53 pm

blinddrew wrote:True dat. As young people apparently say...

Thinking back to the Django one, he'll probably be in the whole mess of pre-1974 state-level copyright as well.

The whole shebang (i was going to use a much naughtier word) needs a complete overhaul for the digital era, and that means international consistency as well.
Which also means it will never happen.

Well the Taurus thing's got nothing to do with the digital era, it's just an attempt to cash in some bucks, probably egged on by some happy lawyering firm..
User avatar
CS70
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2856
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Oslo, Norway
Silver Spoon - Check out our latest video  and the FB page

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby blinddrew » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:10 pm

Probably, and we get back to the only winners being the lawyers, who are probably the only people in the chain who haven't actually input to the creative process...
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5105
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Stairway to Heaven

Postby Escapegoat » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:51 pm

There's extra context here, though: Page et al have plenty of form for ... well ... "excessive borrowing" - e.g. Dazed and Confused among many.
Escapegoat
Regular
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 12:00 am

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users