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PRS vs PPL vs Soundreef etc - confused

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PRS vs PPL vs Soundreef etc - confused

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:01 pm
by banterbanter
Hi,

I'd really appreciate some advice thanks as I'm new to all this music lisencimg stuff.

My friend wrote a melody and lyrics and I added all the instrumentation and production.
Spotify has had some listens (73k) surprisingly and BBC introducing have listened and a radio station wants to play it.
We agreed a split for any futures royalties and I said I'd look into it.

One hour later on Google and I'm very confused haha. PRS PPL etc etc.
Does she join only or I do too?
How does these companies know what the agreed split it anyway?
She is only 16 so do I join as a publisher and add her (and me?) as an artist / producer / musician.

Thanks very much!

Gavin

Re: PRS vs PPL vs Soundreef etc - confused

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:23 pm
by Phil O
I'm afraid there's no shortcut for learning the full ins and outs of music copyright. Something like Don Passman's "All You Need To Know About The Music Industry" or similar would be a good place to start.

However, for the purpose of answering your questions, you need to know that there are basically 2 copyrights that earn royalties i.e composition (songwriting) and the sound recording (master). In simple terms, PRS deal with the songwriting royalty and PPL the Master recording.

Does she join only or I do too?

As a general rule, it's a good idea to register a copyright as fully as possible with all the relevant PRO's in order to improve the chances of a use being captured and thus a royalty generated. So yes. You should both join/register wherever possible. However, from what you say, it appears that you have produced but not written the song (unless agreed otherwise). In this case, only the songwriter need join PRS.

How does these companies know what the agreed split it anyway?

Because as part of the registration process, you will provide details of your agreed splits.

She is only 16 so do I join as a publisher and add her (and me?) as an artist / producer / musician.

Neither of you need a publisher at this point as you will receive the portion that would otherwise have gone to them (UK). You would register you role in the recording with PPL.

Hope that helps.

Re: PRS vs PPL vs Soundreef etc - confused

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:18 pm
by blinddrew
well I don't know about the OP but that's really helped me!
Thanks Phil O! :)

Re: PRS vs PPL vs Soundreef etc - confused

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:06 am
by banterbanter
Hi Phil,

Thanks SO much for taking the time to give those answers, much appreciated.

So to clarify (sorry!)

My friend the songwriter registers with PRS and I the producer / musician register with PPL?

OR, we both join both, because we have to tell both PRS and PPL our agreed split for us both be paid by each company?

Thanks again!

Gavin

Re: PRS vs PPL vs Soundreef etc - confused

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:04 pm
by Phil O
banterbanter wrote:My friend the songwriter registers with PRS and I the producer / musician register with PPL?

OR, we both join both, because we have to tell both PRS and PPL our agreed split for us both be paid by each company?

It depends on whether you are to be treated as having co-written the song. It does not appear so from your original post but you may have agreed otherwise between yourselves.
If you are to be credited as songwriter, then you should both join PRS. Otherwise, just your friend with her ownership of the composition marked as 100%

If you intend to split the performer/production royalties, then you both join PPL (assuming the songwriter friend also performs on the recording (e.g sings).

Re: PRS vs PPL vs Soundreef etc - confused

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:21 pm
by The Elf
I'm a member of both, and I do get paid, but I still have no idea what they do! :headbang:

Re: PRS vs PPL vs Soundreef etc - confused

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:36 pm
by banterbanter
Thanks again Phil

So we'll both join PPL as she does sing on the track.
And we'll both join PRS - this song she is 100% the songwriter but we have since done other songs, co-written together.


Final (I hope!) question - so are there two separate revenue streams? - one from PRS for songwriters and one from PPL for performers/producers etc
So for this song, she will receive money from PRS as songwriter and more money from PPL as a singer?

Thanks
Gavin

Re: PRS vs PPL vs Soundreef etc - confused

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:40 pm
by Ramirez
banterbanter wrote:Final (I hope!) question - so are there two separate revenue streams? - one from PRS for songwriters and one from PPL for performers/producers etc
So for this song, she will receive money from PRS as songwriter and more money from PPL as a singer?

Thanks
Gavin

Yes. PRS distibute four times a year (April, July, October, December) while PPL distibute annualy (June) with adjustment payments in December.

Re: PRS vs PPL vs Soundreef etc - confused

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:53 am
by CS70
Shouldn't cost anything to join a PRO (at least in Norway) and for each individual song you specify the role and the amount of your contribution as a percentage so definitely worth doing it.

Re: PRS vs PPL vs Soundreef etc - confused

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:32 pm
by banterbanter
Hi again,

Just wanted to ask - my friend and I agreed a 70:30 split for any money earned from our song.

But as PRS is for the songwriter, she'll get 100% of that.
PPL is for performers / recording / production which was all me bar the main vocal which was my friend.

So how does one create a 70:30 split out of this?

Thanks once again,
Gavin

Re: PRS vs PPL vs Soundreef etc - confused

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:13 pm
by CS70
Normally you have to register your works, and when you do so, you indicate the percentages. Here in Norway we do it via a web interface: you as for a user to be created, provide proof of identity and after some time you have a user with which you can login and register work - including track ISRC, participants and splits. Maybe it's similar in the UK. In other countries you may need to send in form.

Re: PRS vs PPL vs Soundreef etc - confused

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:54 am
by Richard Benn
I've found this very interesting as well as I may find myself in a similar situation to the OP at some point.

What has always confused me is that PRS For Music represent both PRS and MCPS and their web site says you can join each separately either as a writer or publisher.

How does MCPS fit into this - is it an alternative to PPL or complimentary to it?

Thanks.