You are here

Help in promoting my educational channel...

Advice on everything from getting your music heard to setting up a label and royalties.

Re: Help in promoting my educational channel...

Postby blinddrew » Wed May 15, 2019 4:53 pm

Sounds like you need a partner Eddie. I'd think about Eddy's advice about seeing if you can tap up a marketing student/graduate.
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10856
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Help in promoting my educational channel...

Postby The Red Bladder » Wed May 15, 2019 6:09 pm

blinddrew wrote:Sounds like you need a partner Eddie.
No!

I deal with failed website businesses about once a week. The consequences are seldom severe - just, er - well, they range from depressing to disappointing.

I deal with failed partnerships about once every two days. The consequences are almost every time devastating. Livelihoods are destroyed. People lose all they own. Houses are repossessed as a result of partners not talking to one another. English partnership and company law is convoluted and nearly all those who either enter a partnership or become partners in a limited company with shares, fall out in the worst possible way.

Zukan has an interesting problem, but there's no magic bullet. The task at hand calls for some basic market research, followed by (probably) a total restructuring of what he is doing.

As Huge states, make what you can sell. Selling what you can make is 'knitting-shop-territory' and is the reason why most recording studios fail and most musical careers flounder on the rocks of reality!
The Red Bladder
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2520
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:00 am
Location: . . .
 

Re: Help in promoting my educational channel...

Postby Eddy Deegan » Wed May 15, 2019 6:30 pm

The Red Bladder wrote:English partnership and company law is convoluted and nearly all those who either enter a partnership or become partners in a limited company with shares, fall out in the worst possible way.

Just for clarity, I was suggesting an intern / student type paid help arrangement, not a partnership in any true or legal sense of the word. As I said, it did work well for my company as we moved out of stealth mode and started to attract new interest :)
User avatar
Eddy Deegan
Moderator
Posts: 4504
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:00 am
Location: Brighton & Hove, UK
Some of my works.
Please consider submitting an original track to the 2nd SOS Forum Album project!
 

Re: Help in promoting my educational channel...

Postby blinddrew » Wed May 15, 2019 7:18 pm

Yep, for clarity, i meant a buddy to do the marketing for a cut, not a legal partnership.
Apologies
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10856
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Help in promoting my educational channel...

Postby Zukan » Thu May 16, 2019 8:26 am

This thread is really helping me. I cannot thank you guys enough for taking the time to help me. I knew I asked in the right place.

Ok, I want to keep this thread going and not just for me. I just know there are many others in the same boat as me and the advice here would benefit everyone.

I am going to rethink my goals and approach to the business, however, I need guidance. Could one of you Jedis have a look at my site and give me feedback re the layout, the wording (I am really bad at condensing paragraphs into power sentences), the content and prices and so on. I know that some of you guys are excellent in understanding the best way to market a product or service. I am terrible at wording product descriptions and my services.

I have checked my Youtube channel using Vidiq and it seems to be ok for keywords, titles etc...and yet I hardly get any views. Anyone here run a commercial Youtube channel that can advise me on improvements I could make to the existing channel and how best to present the content.

I don't want anyone to think I am freeloading here. I am happy to pay for your time. I will now not be migrating the site across to Shopify until I can generate enough interest in my products to warrant the move so I can use the money to better my business. Otherwise, all I am doing is spending a few thousand to move the same low traffic site to another platform.
User avatar
Zukan
Moderator
Posts: 8877
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Help in promoting my educational channel...

Postby Martin Walker » Thu May 16, 2019 11:09 am

Zukan wrote:I have checked my Youtube channel using Vidiq and it seems to be ok for keywords, titles etc...and yet I hardly get any views. Anyone here run a commercial Youtube channel that can advise me on improvements I could make to the existing channel and how best to present the content.

Getting views/sales can sometimes be largely out of your hands. Here are a couple of examples from my own experience:

1. Back in the 1980's I wrote five computer games - all got good through to rave reviews (especially the ones I spent ten months or more homing and polishing). However, the one that earned me most money was written to an incredibly tight deadline of just nine weeks so its release coincided with that of a film - the game was called 'Back To The Future'. As others have said before me on this thread, if you have other people 'bigging up' your product it can make a huge difference, even when that product isn't your best work for whatever reason. Sobering but true ;)

2. In August 2016 I published details of my Korg MS-20 Retro Expansion on my own tiny personal website. This wasn't a commercial venture, just a one-off mod for my own use, but I sent the news to the Matrixsynth web site to let like-minded folk find out about it, then Ask.Audio picked up on this the following day and also mentioned it on their web site. I was quite pleased with the number of people who visited my page and emailed me - my tiny personal web site visits jumped from dozens to hundreds per day.

However, nothing prepared me for the result of someone at Korg UK spotting it 11 days later and posting a one sentence mention on their Facebook page. On that single day my page hits jumped to 1000, and then dropped back down to a few hundred each day. That really made me realise that targeting publicity very carefully to the most appropriate audience can make a HUGE difference.

All small fry in the grand scheme of things, but in both cases, the best publicity/sales were effectively down to highly targeted advertising by other people - like you Zuke I'm a modest sort of bloke, and therefore not good at singing my own praises. So, if there's any way anyone here can suggest ways that Zukan can become more focused with his publicity, it might help a great deal.


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 16043
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Help in promoting my educational channel...

Postby The Red Bladder » Thu May 16, 2019 12:03 pm

It sounds as if you are asking for some tough love. In which case - it's back to basics time!

BEFORE you do anything whatsoever, you must deal with Question Number One -

Dr Huge Longjohns wrote:As TRB said, if the market's not there you won't sell a thing. I have had many a prickly conversation with my clients over the years on this very topic!
Amen to that!

I have just been dealing with someone who sells roller-blinds. He wants to expand into bespoke internal wooden shutters. Before I even took on the gig, I did a bit of very basic research - is there much of a market for internal shutters?

A Google-session or two later and a few calls to companies offering internal shutters showed me that it is a very small market and that prices are right down to the bone. The wholesale price of these things (and I didn't even know such things existed!) is about $100 per square meter and that is the FoB price from China. So the to-the-door price here will be about double that, by the time we have factored in all the various freight, VAT and other costs, inc. admin.

A simple two-piece hinged shutter for a 120 x 150 window will cost about $180 FoB and $360 to-the-door = £280 gross inc. VAT, if we also factor in the cost of sending them to the customer.

And it hasn't been built yet! It takes a worker just a few minutes to cut-n-glue the parts, so I 'guestimated' £10 total labour costs per part, i.e. £20. His competition was selling them for £600 but has been forced to sell off their stock at half price - £300 gross, which is the cost of importing the parts, cutting them to size and having them picked up by 'My Herpes'.

Simply put, his competition (who are well-established, are already tooled-up, have done all the website stuff, inc. sexy videos of leggy blonds opening and closing shutters and smiling) are selling their stock at cost price!

Conclusion - there ain't no market for quality internal wooden shutters and the £20,000 it would cost for stock and tooling would probably be wasted! (I got two free roller-blinds for that - what with roller-blinds, drummers that can't keep the beat and amateur pipe bands - I'm really living the rock-n-roll lifestyle!)

Now let's look at 'How-to' videos for recording rock music -

Obviously, we go to the second most popular search machine on Planet Earth, YouTube. "getting a great drum sound" gives me THOUSANDS of videos, some boring, long and unscripted and some from top professionals that folks have actually heard of!

Near the top - Chris Lord-Alge. Tight, five-to-six-minute pieces -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdODmoL ... io=1&t=132
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc3SxgT ... Z0&index=3

They are slick, they are professional, they show us the man himself and they get to the point quickly. There just ain't no schlepp in any of that!

But here's the kicker - they're free!

So there's your competition - a three-camera-plus-screen-capture shoot that is professionally lit and has been tightly edited and scripted down to a few minutes, featuring one of the best-known mix guys in the World.

Nearly all his videos feature some goofy product and he is being PAID to use that product, be it a plug from Slate or some BS from Waves or whatever.

As someone who has been involved in language teaching and now music teaching, I could criticise the pedagogical value of his videos for those that genuinely want to learn how to get great sounds the Old-School way. You could possibly say that they are too quick, too slick and rely too much on Magic Zoom-Pills (i.e. some bogus plug-ins!)

The rest of us use samples in the studio and dDrum 'brains' or triggered samples for live work and that spares all concerned a great deal of misery - and money!

Conclusion - From where I am standing, supply seems to be outstripping demand! Yes, there's a great deal you could do about your website, the videos themselves and the structure of the 'sales-pathway', but the question you must ask yourself is "Is it worth it?"
_________________________________

An alternative way forward could be to write a book on the whole subject and bundle that with a couple of DVDs or BluRays, tightly edited and scripted and open a YT channel with very short excerpts featuring a head-n-shoulders of your good self stating "Find out more when you get 'The SampleCraze guide to modern recording'. Hit me up on my website for that!"

The premise being that Old-School recording is dead and people need to find out how to do all the new funky things using MIDI tracks and samples. "Kewl, hip, here, now!
Recording for the Ariana Grande, Dua Lipa, Cardi B. generation!"
The Red Bladder
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2520
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:00 am
Location: . . .
 

Re: Help in promoting my educational channel...

Postby Guest » Thu May 16, 2019 1:03 pm

I spoke to a friend of mine, who is involved in teaching, yesterday about this topic and he had a couple of points about video tuition. One is that as mentioned above: is the video for beginners or professionals, who may decide to record something in a style they are not familiar with? Another point is that the video pace is fixed, it will be too slow for some, too fast for others. He also said there are a lot of people going to colleges, presumably because there you get instant feedback, other students to talk to, you can talk to the lecturer, there is a sense of community - none of this is possible with video.
Guest

Re: Help in promoting my educational channel...

Postby Eddy Deegan » Thu May 16, 2019 1:19 pm

The Red Bladder wrote:Obviously, we go to the second most popular search machine on Planet Earth, YouTube. "getting a great drum sound" gives me THOUSANDS of videos, some boring, long and unscripted and some from top professionals that folks have actually heard of!

Near the top - Chris Lord-Alge. Tight, five-to-six-minute pieces -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdODmoL ... io=1&t=132
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc3SxgT ... Z0&index=3

They are slick, they are professional, they show us the man himself and they get to the point quickly. There just ain't no schlepp in any of that!

But here's the kicker - they're free!

Pedantic point (sorry!) - they are free, but they are incomplete 'tasters' intended to redirect the viewer to other sites which provide access to the full offerings (I haven't followed all the links but a casual glance would suggest there is probably a payment point somewhere along the line).

Not to detract from, or disagree with, anything TRB is saying; it's obvious he knows what he's talking about :thumbup:

To me it looks as if Chris is doing something not dissimilar to Eddie, albeit with a higher profile, larger organisation and (presumably) backing.
User avatar
Eddy Deegan
Moderator
Posts: 4504
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 12:00 am
Location: Brighton & Hove, UK
Some of my works.
Please consider submitting an original track to the 2nd SOS Forum Album project!
 

Re: Help in promoting my educational channel...

Postby Zukan » Thu May 16, 2019 3:46 pm

I had a long chat with my family about what to do as my vocation directly affects them. They felt that the dire limitations of WP is not worth any further expenditure. They felt that Shopify has better marketing tools, better added functionality which I have almost none of using WP, cross promotion of products, collaborative shared coupons and best of all it has tools that allow me to provide a better service to my customers and the icing on the cake: I can run the subscription channel inhouse..

Today, I asked my WP admin if it was possible to create an opt-in page for emails. I wanted to offer one of my books as a freebie and all they have to do is input their email and they receive a link to the book. He told me it can be done but he's not doing it as he's busy. I offered to pay...nada. I asked if he knew a WP chap that could do this for paid work....nada.

I asked if it was possible to have follow up emails to customers a week after they have made a purchase. The email would ask if the transaction was smooth and without issues and whether the customer could provide short feedback and maybe rate the product he had purchased. I was told none of this functionality exists on my site and would require more plugins and developers to configure them. I then asked if we could do some affiliate agreements; I am an endorsed educator at Acustica Audio and we send customers to each others' sites and it is up to us to issue a 30% discount coupon at checkout. On most sites this is very easy to increment. On my site it is utter hell. If AA send a customer to my site I am then meant to issue them a 30% discount. To do this I need to have the coupons in place. Nope, WP can't do that. As it stands my website can only apply product and system wide coupons on an individual basis. I can't, for example, issue a coupon to use on my site at checkout for the agreed deal with AA. So, we go through this banal process of the customer having to choose a bunch of products, email me with the list, I then have to send a Paypal invoice to the customer for the basket amount less 30%. He then pays. He then emails me. I set up an account for him, send him a confirmation email for his account. Once he confirms I can add the product to his account. This 6 step nonsense has cost me dearly. And it doesn't end there; Samplecraze, as it stands, cannot offer a subscription service so I have had to go elsewhere to set this up, thus Pivotshare. Think about that; a customer wants to join Samplecraze to subscribe and to watch the videos that are on offer. He now has to leave the site, sign up at Pivotshare just to view the same videos that are on Smplecraze because at Samplecraze he is only given the option to by individual videos.

I think you're getting why WP has been a nightmare for me as a business platform. I have probably not only lost many customers but also damaged my reputation as I am not providing a seamless and simple service.

So, today I gave the go ahead to move the site across to Shopify. I can run all the subscriptions in-house, promote coupons with affiliates, have review systems put in place for products (which WP cannot do), have cross selling across the site and so on.

But here is my problem; my site needs better product descriptions, slimmed down and focused content and most of all I need to find out who my target audience is. I started with beginner, intermediate and professional video tutorials and from there moved onto the masterclass series. Because I have so much content aimed at all three levels I am lost as to which to pick and concentrate on that.

I also need my bio rewritten by someone who is good at this ( I have tried many times and failed each time). I need better product descriptions on Youtube and a stronger representation on social media. Again I could do with some help here.

Most of all I need to know how to maximise my Youtube channel which has been left stagnant for 6 months now.

I have tried to study my competitors but it is hard to know how well they are doing. They all make the right noises but I know most are in trouble. I have tried to compare my prices against theirs and I am much cheaper. I have tried to study their format and I like some of the approaches some of these sites have taken. Puremix has a review and rating system in place which really helps to boost sales. I asked for this on my WP site but was told it couldn't be done without additional plugins and someone to configure them.

The example Huge gave to me was Recording Engineer who has half a million subscribers to his Youtube channel and a 1000 subscribers for his monthly mix courses. His website is a very simple WP site with only 4 pages and it looks like someone like me made it. However, the 4 pages are all opt-in linked products for emails, and the rest are testimonials on the 4 products he sells.

My site is jammed with text and irrelevant text. How I describe a product is very different to how Recording Engineer described his content. There is immediacy in his approach with constant reinforcements about what the product is providing. My product descriptions are long and far too detailed.
User avatar
Zukan
Moderator
Posts: 8877
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Help in promoting my educational channel...

Postby The Red Bladder » Thu May 16, 2019 5:08 pm

WP sites - Relatively cheap and good - https://aerin.co.uk/

I'll read the rest later!
The Red Bladder
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2520
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:00 am
Location: . . .
 

Re: Help in promoting my educational channel...

Postby The Red Bladder » Thu May 16, 2019 5:31 pm

And now that I have gone through the rest - there ain't nuffin you can't do in WordPress. Like Reaper or ProTools - there is a plugin for everything! (I assume that with WP you mean WordPress.)

The guy I recommended above is a WP specialist and also writes plugins for WP. He lives, eats and breaths this stuff!

With WP I mean wordpress.org BTW.
The Red Bladder
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2520
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:00 am
Location: . . .
 

Re: Help in promoting my educational channel...

Postby Guest » Thu May 16, 2019 5:40 pm

The Red Bladder wrote:If I put my consultant's hat on, I often get approached by people with online businesses that are failing to perform. I nearly always do not want to deal with them, because there is just too much wrong to even begin to start to fix things.

So you just fix succesful businesses RB yeah?
Guest

Re: Help in promoting my educational channel...

Postby The Red Bladder » Thu May 16, 2019 6:26 pm

ReadySaltedChris wrote:So you just fix succesful businesses RB yeah?
That ain't how you spell 'Successful' - though I LOVE the comment!

The client has to be ready to take on the truth - and many (most?) owners of failing SMEs are not! They say they are - but the opposite is the reality! That means that only those owners of SMEs who have already resigned themselves to a total restructuring of what they do are going to benefit from my 30 cents worth!

As for the big boys - they pay big money to hear what they already know. They just want confirmation - in the form of 50 pages on paper!
The Red Bladder
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2520
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:00 am
Location: . . .
 

Re: Help in promoting my educational channel...

Postby blinddrew » Thu May 16, 2019 8:14 pm

The Red Bladder wrote:As for the big boys - they pay big money to hear what they already know. They just want confirmation - in the form of 50 pages on paper!
And a consultant's logo in the corner, don't forget that... ;)
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10856
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

PreviousNext