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Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby ManFromGlass » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:03 pm

"Still make it now" - yes what does that mean?

In the composer community here in Canada some think you are a success if you don’t have a secondary job to support your composing job. That may mean you are just eking by by composing music for projects with the lowest of budgets and lower production value.

This is probably the furthest a composer can be from landing an A List Hollywood film or tv series on a major network with all the $$ and prestige that goes with that. Not to mention stress levels.
Yet having the bills covered by doing something one is passionate about is a definite form of making it.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby blinddrew » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:10 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:I fixed the original link, too! :D
Thanks, my browser here doesn't actually let me see the embedded images so I have to guess... :headbang:
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby Wonks » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:11 pm

blinddrew wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:I fixed the original link, too! :D
Thanks, my browser here doesn't actually let me see the embedded images so I have to guess... :headbang:

It's all fluffy kittens and cute puppies.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby awjoe » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:21 pm

blinddrew wrote:
awjoe wrote:I'm still trying to answer the original question 'Can someone still make it work?' but from the point of view of the writer/performer, because that's what I do. My stuff comes awfully close to really listenable sometimes, and I'm wondering if it had access to the small company/collective model I described if it would make it any more listenable. I don't think so. It might make it more listened to, but that's only half of what 'making it' means to me.
Ah, so, first question then, what does 'making it' mean to you?

From the point of view of a writer/performer, 'making it' means making a significant amount of money in exchange for producing the music that I really want to make for myself and others with freedom to explore and grow.

Significant amount of money means enough to pay the bills. Not the $.85 I've made on Spotify.

Music that I really want to make means music that I enjoy listening to. Not a niche job in the music industry producing something I'm not personally interested in.

Freedom to explore and grow means like the Beatles did.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby blinddrew » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:52 pm

Ok, based 100% on that definition, i'm going to say that's unlikely. Certainly in the early stages such an ecosystem will have to compromise on some or all of those things until you've established your USP.
But that doesn't mean it couldn't work in the longer term.

I reckon... ;)
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby hobbyist » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:20 pm

Eddy Deegan wrote:
hobbyist wrote:
Eddy Deegan wrote:
hobbyist wrote:I prefer to think that I am realistic and weigh the risks/rewards before doing something.

That only works up to a point, is my point. There are many people who have just gone for it and succeeded in situations where if they had weighed up the risk/rewards before doing something, they would not have done it.
...

Fear is the enemy.

Some people hit the lottery too. It's the retirement plan for too many people I know as they can't save enough to retire on.

Millions of millenials are living in their parents basement playing video games with a worthless degree.

Who will take care of them after their parents die?

I don't think anything I said is comparable to winning the lottery in any way and the vast majority of millennials living in their parents basement don't need looking after after their parents die any more than they need looking after now.

I also very much doubt there are millions of people with degrees sitting round doing nothing. Degrees are almost as much about learning how to work at something, almost anything, as they are about an academic subject in and of itself.

The main question of the thread was "Can someone still make it now?". Assuming 'making it' means making a living then yes, someone can and a lot do. A minority of those will make it big, much as has always been the case.

What you're now talking about is apathy, not ability or possibility.

Agree. But everybody's point is different. Some are conservative.
Some a little risky. Others border on playing russian roulette.

To me making it is having something that I enjoy doing while getting paid enough to live modestly and support a family while saving for retirement. I dont need a yacht or private plane or a mansion.
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Can someone still make it now What are the odds Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now

Postby SvetikCug » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:31 pm

Im listening to the album S.C.I.E.N.C.E. by Incubus for the first time right now. I got it for Christmas, and it is quite nice. "A Certain Shade of Green" is playing right now.

Also, umbrae... When did SOAD have potential? Theyve been pretty mediocre for as long as I can remember.

ImageС уважением!
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby CS70 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:27 am

hobbyist wrote:When does reality set in and say it is not worth the effort?

Ha! These days - at least for the majority of people in the western world - we create our own reality. With the basic needs of food and a roof over your head taken care for (the US, perhaps, is unique in that it still doesn't do that for its citizens in certain areas), all the rest is a mental construction. Nobody needs an iphone, or a car, or a double latte - yet this type of surplus items represent the biggest amount of business and money that goes around. By far.

Whether or not is worth the effort - it's not about reality, it's about you.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby hobbyist » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:35 pm

CS70 wrote:
hobbyist wrote:When does reality set in and say it is not worth the effort?

Ha! These days - at least for the majority of people in the western world - we create our own reality. With the basic needs of food and a roof over your head taken care for (the US, perhaps, is unique in that it still doesn't do that for its citizens in certain areas), all the rest is a mental construction. Nobody needs an iphone, or a car, or a double latte - yet this type of surplus items represent the biggest amount of business and money that goes around. By far.

Whether or not is worth the effort - it's not about reality, it's about you.

The US does a lot. Some people do not want help. Others abuse it.

Church/private charities give 8x as much help to the needy per available dollar than the government does.

If we got govt out of the charity business then we could cut taxes by 50% while doubling the help given to the poor and watching the economy create jobs for the poor as that other 50% got invested.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby CS70 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:01 pm

Well then, even better.

Once your basic needs are met, reality is a mental construction. Everything that exists beyond the basics, exists because someone really wanted it.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby blinddrew » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:05 pm

hobbyist wrote:If we got govt out of the charity business then we could cut taxes by 50% while doubling the help given to the poor and watching the economy create jobs for the poor as that other 50% got invested.
Are you really suggesting that 50% of the tax take in the US goes to charity? Or are you including all forms of welfare payments here? And what makes you think that other 50% would be invested and not just transferred to private holdings?
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby hobbyist » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:55 pm

blinddrew wrote:
hobbyist wrote:If we got govt out of the charity business then we could cut taxes by 50% while doubling the help given to the poor and watching the economy create jobs for the poor as that other 50% got invested.
Are you really suggesting that 50% of the tax take in the US goes to charity? Or are you including all forms of welfare payments here? And what makes you think that other 50% would be invested and not just transferred to private holdings?


No. I tried to update that before posting but it failed.

I mean the % of taxes that is allocated to charity could be cut in half if we let private charity/churches provide all the assistance.

Then cancel that all of that part of our taxes to govt, so that some could be used profitably to create jobs and part would be used to provide more charity to more people than govt does with all its waste.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby CS70 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:11 pm

To put this in context, I understand you’re US based and I remember well how much I was surprised of the system when I lived there: in the US charities and community work take a gigantic part of the general welfare effort.

Please do appreciate that to most European ears the idea will appear as entirely lunatic - it’s a totally different mindset as to provide these services is seen as one of the main justifications to have a government in the first place.

The main problem with your approach tough, is that it’s unrealistic and contradicts evidence: when people with already enough money have lower taxes, they tend to keep the money or put it to work to produce capital gains, which does not create jobs particularly well, if at all.

This is the mail reason of the incredible wealth concentration in the US, where a very small amount of the population posses the great majority of wealth.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby hobbyist » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:24 pm

CS70 wrote:To put this in context, I understand you’re US based and I remember well how much I was surprised of the system when I lived there: in the US charities and community work take a gigantic part of the general welfare effort.

Please do appreciate that to most European ears the idea will appear as entirely lunatic - it’s a totally different mindset as to provide these services is seen as one of the main justifications to have a government in the first place.

The main problem with your approach tough, is that it’s unrealistic and contradicts evidence: when people with already enough money have lower taxes, they tend to keep the money or put it to work to produce capital gains, which does not create jobs particularly well, if at all.

This is the mail reason of the incredible wealth concentration in the US, where a very small amount of the population posses the great majority of wealth.


I realise there are differences between us and the continent.
And it is hard to make govt smaller once it has started growing.

Government has no valid business providing anything but law and order including military, and sound money. That would include protecting people from scams fraud and externalities.

Everything govt does otherwise is just an excuse to grow government.
In the end govt will take all we make and give very little while the 'crats live high on the hog.

The problem you note is because govt is still in the charity biz.
Folks do not see the need to give as much when they are paying so much to govt who is supposedly taking care of charity. Get govt out of the charity biz and people would willingly give the truly needy as much as possible. Note that the way they are breeding like bunnies they will grow so large as to unsustainable by us or the govt. We need a tax on kids. pay 250,000 usd to buy a license to have another kid as that is the true cost of raising them until they contribute and finally to care for them after they cant work until they die.

Wealth concentration is meaningless. It is just envy being used as a scare tactic by the left. Why shouldnt people who create more value keep some of what they create? Either they spend the money helping the economy, or they invest it to create jobs to make more money, or they put in a bank who invests it. Anyway you slice it they are helping everybody do better. The real problem is the people who dont work , drop out of school, have lots of bastards, and expect everybody to take care of them and their kids.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby CS70 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:43 pm

hobbyist wrote:I realise there are differences between us and the continent.
And it is hard to make govt smaller once it has started growing.

Government has no valid business providing anything but law and order including military, and sound money. That would include protecting people from scams fraud and externalities. Everything govt does otherwise is just an excuse to grow government.

Everybody's entitled to an opinion, and they come a dime a dozen. You will find that most people in Europe do not share yours, and works on different assumptions. I am sure you can see that?

In the end govt will take all we make and give very little while the 'crats live high on the hog.

If you look at evidence, you will find out that it is not necessarily so. There's plenty countries with fairly large government where graft is not endemic at all. There are, of course, many large government countries where it is, and so there are small government countries which work and other which don't. Slogans aren't useful at all.


The problem you note is because govt is still in the charity biz.
Folks do not see the need to give as much when they are paying so much to govt who is supposedly taking care of charity. Get govt out of the charity biz and people would willingly give the truly needy as much as possible. Note that the way they are breeding like bunnies they will grow so large as to unsustainable by us or the govt. We need a tax on kids. pay 250,000 usd to buy a license to have another kid as that is the true cost of raising them until they contribute and finally to care for them after they cant work until they die.

It's hard - actually, meaningless - to discuss such statements without being sure that there's enough common understanding...

Wealth concentration is meaningless. It is just envy being used as a scare tactic by the left. Why shouldnt people who create more value keep some of what they create? Either they spend the money helping the economy, or they invest it to create jobs to make more money, or they put in a bank who invests it. Anyway you slice it they are helping everybody do better. The real problem is the people who dont work , drop out of school, have lots of bastards, and expect everybody to take care of them and their kids.

..and it is pretty obvious that there isn't. ;-)
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