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Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby hobbyist » Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:20 pm

Eddy Deegan wrote:
hobbyist wrote:
Eddy Deegan wrote:
hobbyist wrote:I prefer to think that I am realistic and weigh the risks/rewards before doing something.

That only works up to a point, is my point. There are many people who have just gone for it and succeeded in situations where if they had weighed up the risk/rewards before doing something, they would not have done it.
...

Fear is the enemy.

Some people hit the lottery too. It's the retirement plan for too many people I know as they can't save enough to retire on.

Millions of millenials are living in their parents basement playing video games with a worthless degree.

Who will take care of them after their parents die?

I don't think anything I said is comparable to winning the lottery in any way and the vast majority of millennials living in their parents basement don't need looking after after their parents die any more than they need looking after now.

I also very much doubt there are millions of people with degrees sitting round doing nothing. Degrees are almost as much about learning how to work at something, almost anything, as they are about an academic subject in and of itself.

The main question of the thread was "Can someone still make it now?". Assuming 'making it' means making a living then yes, someone can and a lot do. A minority of those will make it big, much as has always been the case.

What you're now talking about is apathy, not ability or possibility.

Agree. But everybody's point is different. Some are conservative.
Some a little risky. Others border on playing russian roulette.

To me making it is having something that I enjoy doing while getting paid enough to live modestly and support a family while saving for retirement. I dont need a yacht or private plane or a mansion.
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Can someone still make it now What are the odds Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now

Postby SvetikCug » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:31 pm

Im listening to the album S.C.I.E.N.C.E. by Incubus for the first time right now. I got it for Christmas, and it is quite nice. "A Certain Shade of Green" is playing right now.

Also, umbrae... When did SOAD have potential? Theyve been pretty mediocre for as long as I can remember.

ImageС уважением!
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby CS70 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:27 am

hobbyist wrote:When does reality set in and say it is not worth the effort?

Ha! These days - at least for the majority of people in the western world - we create our own reality. With the basic needs of food and a roof over your head taken care for (the US, perhaps, is unique in that it still doesn't do that for its citizens in certain areas), all the rest is a mental construction. Nobody needs an iphone, or a car, or a double latte - yet this type of surplus items represent the biggest amount of business and money that goes around. By far.

Whether or not is worth the effort - it's not about reality, it's about you.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby hobbyist » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:35 pm

CS70 wrote:
hobbyist wrote:When does reality set in and say it is not worth the effort?

Ha! These days - at least for the majority of people in the western world - we create our own reality. With the basic needs of food and a roof over your head taken care for (the US, perhaps, is unique in that it still doesn't do that for its citizens in certain areas), all the rest is a mental construction. Nobody needs an iphone, or a car, or a double latte - yet this type of surplus items represent the biggest amount of business and money that goes around. By far.

Whether or not is worth the effort - it's not about reality, it's about you.

The US does a lot. Some people do not want help. Others abuse it.

Church/private charities give 8x as much help to the needy per available dollar than the government does.

If we got govt out of the charity business then we could cut taxes by 50% while doubling the help given to the poor and watching the economy create jobs for the poor as that other 50% got invested.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby CS70 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:01 pm

Well then, even better.

Once your basic needs are met, reality is a mental construction. Everything that exists beyond the basics, exists because someone really wanted it.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby blinddrew » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:05 pm

hobbyist wrote:If we got govt out of the charity business then we could cut taxes by 50% while doubling the help given to the poor and watching the economy create jobs for the poor as that other 50% got invested.
Are you really suggesting that 50% of the tax take in the US goes to charity? Or are you including all forms of welfare payments here? And what makes you think that other 50% would be invested and not just transferred to private holdings?
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby hobbyist » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:55 pm

blinddrew wrote:
hobbyist wrote:If we got govt out of the charity business then we could cut taxes by 50% while doubling the help given to the poor and watching the economy create jobs for the poor as that other 50% got invested.
Are you really suggesting that 50% of the tax take in the US goes to charity? Or are you including all forms of welfare payments here? And what makes you think that other 50% would be invested and not just transferred to private holdings?


No. I tried to update that before posting but it failed.

I mean the % of taxes that is allocated to charity could be cut in half if we let private charity/churches provide all the assistance.

Then cancel that all of that part of our taxes to govt, so that some could be used profitably to create jobs and part would be used to provide more charity to more people than govt does with all its waste.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby CS70 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:11 pm

To put this in context, I understand you’re US based and I remember well how much I was surprised of the system when I lived there: in the US charities and community work take a gigantic part of the general welfare effort.

Please do appreciate that to most European ears the idea will appear as entirely lunatic - it’s a totally different mindset as to provide these services is seen as one of the main justifications to have a government in the first place.

The main problem with your approach tough, is that it’s unrealistic and contradicts evidence: when people with already enough money have lower taxes, they tend to keep the money or put it to work to produce capital gains, which does not create jobs particularly well, if at all.

This is the mail reason of the incredible wealth concentration in the US, where a very small amount of the population posses the great majority of wealth.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby hobbyist » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:24 pm

CS70 wrote:To put this in context, I understand you’re US based and I remember well how much I was surprised of the system when I lived there: in the US charities and community work take a gigantic part of the general welfare effort.

Please do appreciate that to most European ears the idea will appear as entirely lunatic - it’s a totally different mindset as to provide these services is seen as one of the main justifications to have a government in the first place.

The main problem with your approach tough, is that it’s unrealistic and contradicts evidence: when people with already enough money have lower taxes, they tend to keep the money or put it to work to produce capital gains, which does not create jobs particularly well, if at all.

This is the mail reason of the incredible wealth concentration in the US, where a very small amount of the population posses the great majority of wealth.


I realise there are differences between us and the continent.
And it is hard to make govt smaller once it has started growing.

Government has no valid business providing anything but law and order including military, and sound money. That would include protecting people from scams fraud and externalities.

Everything govt does otherwise is just an excuse to grow government.
In the end govt will take all we make and give very little while the 'crats live high on the hog.

The problem you note is because govt is still in the charity biz.
Folks do not see the need to give as much when they are paying so much to govt who is supposedly taking care of charity. Get govt out of the charity biz and people would willingly give the truly needy as much as possible. Note that the way they are breeding like bunnies they will grow so large as to unsustainable by us or the govt. We need a tax on kids. pay 250,000 usd to buy a license to have another kid as that is the true cost of raising them until they contribute and finally to care for them after they cant work until they die.

Wealth concentration is meaningless. It is just envy being used as a scare tactic by the left. Why shouldnt people who create more value keep some of what they create? Either they spend the money helping the economy, or they invest it to create jobs to make more money, or they put in a bank who invests it. Anyway you slice it they are helping everybody do better. The real problem is the people who dont work , drop out of school, have lots of bastards, and expect everybody to take care of them and their kids.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby CS70 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:43 pm

hobbyist wrote:I realise there are differences between us and the continent.
And it is hard to make govt smaller once it has started growing.

Government has no valid business providing anything but law and order including military, and sound money. That would include protecting people from scams fraud and externalities. Everything govt does otherwise is just an excuse to grow government.

Everybody's entitled to an opinion, and they come a dime a dozen. You will find that most people in Europe do not share yours, and works on different assumptions. I am sure you can see that?

In the end govt will take all we make and give very little while the 'crats live high on the hog.

If you look at evidence, you will find out that it is not necessarily so. There's plenty countries with fairly large government where graft is not endemic at all. There are, of course, many large government countries where it is, and so there are small government countries which work and other which don't. Slogans aren't useful at all.


The problem you note is because govt is still in the charity biz.
Folks do not see the need to give as much when they are paying so much to govt who is supposedly taking care of charity. Get govt out of the charity biz and people would willingly give the truly needy as much as possible. Note that the way they are breeding like bunnies they will grow so large as to unsustainable by us or the govt. We need a tax on kids. pay 250,000 usd to buy a license to have another kid as that is the true cost of raising them until they contribute and finally to care for them after they cant work until they die.

It's hard - actually, meaningless - to discuss such statements without being sure that there's enough common understanding...

Wealth concentration is meaningless. It is just envy being used as a scare tactic by the left. Why shouldnt people who create more value keep some of what they create? Either they spend the money helping the economy, or they invest it to create jobs to make more money, or they put in a bank who invests it. Anyway you slice it they are helping everybody do better. The real problem is the people who dont work , drop out of school, have lots of bastards, and expect everybody to take care of them and their kids.

..and it is pretty obvious that there isn't. ;-)
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby hobbyist » Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:38 am

CS70 wrote:
hobbyist wrote:I realise there are differences between us and the continent.
And it is hard to make govt smaller once it has started growing.

Government has no valid business providing anything but law and order including military, and sound money. That would include protecting people from scams fraud and externalities. Everything govt does otherwise is just an excuse to grow government.

Everybody's entitled to an opinion, and they come a dime a dozen. You will find that most people in Europe do not share yours, and works on different assumptions. I am sure you can see that?

In the end govt will take all we make and give very little while the 'crats live high on the hog.

If you look at evidence, you will find out that it is not necessarily so. There's plenty countries with fairly large government where graft is not endemic at all. There are, of course, many large government countries where it is, and so there are small government countries which work and other which don't. Slogans aren't useful at all.


The problem you note is because govt is still in the charity biz.
Folks do not see the need to give as much when they are paying so much to govt who is supposedly taking care of charity. Get govt out of the charity biz and people would willingly give the truly needy as much as possible. Note that the way they are breeding like bunnies they will grow so large as to unsustainable by us or the govt. We need a tax on kids. pay 250,000 usd to buy a license to have another kid as that is the true cost of raising them until they contribute and finally to care for them after they cant work until they die.

It's hard - actually, meaningless - to discuss such statements without being sure that there's enough common understanding...

Wealth concentration is meaningless. It is just envy being used as a scare tactic by the left. Why shouldnt people who create more value keep some of what they create? Either they spend the money helping the economy, or they invest it to create jobs to make more money, or they put in a bank who invests it. Anyway you slice it they are helping everybody do better. The real problem is the people who dont work , drop out of school, have lots of bastards, and expect everybody to take care of them and their kids.

..and it is pretty obvious that there isn't. ;-)

I understand some of the differences between US and EU.
I realise that many people think govt should give them stuff.

Evil and crime are everywhere. In the end every govt enslaves the people. Some take longer, Others are overthrown before it happens.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby blinddrew » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:17 am

It must be pretty grim living in such a relentlessly negative world.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby Mike Stranks » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:45 am

Deep breaths... count to 20... take stock...

I've never been to the States, but I do read a lot, watch 'sensible TV' documentaries and have conversed with many US citizens about socialism, government, self-help, charity, Christianity etc.

From those observations, conversations and recent posts in various threads here it's increasingly apparent to me how wide the gulf is in life-philosophies between the majority of people in the States and in the UK - and even more so in the Nordic countries.

Unless one has lived for some time in both cultures any attempted dialogue or comment on life-philosophy issues is futile. The other party simply won't comprehend - in the fullest sense of the word - what you mean.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby hobbyist » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:22 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:Deep breaths... count to 20... take stock...

I've never been to the States, but I do read a lot, watch 'sensible TV' documentaries and have conversed with many US citizens about socialism, government, self-help, charity, Christianity etc.

From those observations, conversations and recent posts in various threads here it's increasingly apparent to me how wide the gulf is in life-philosophies between the majority of people in the States and in the UK - and even more so in the Nordic countries.

Unless one has lived for some time in both cultures any attempted dialogue or comment on life-philosophy issues is futile. The other party simply won't comprehend - in the fullest sense of the word - what you mean.


Completely agree.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby hobbyist » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:23 pm

blinddrew wrote:It must be pretty grim living in such a relentlessly negative world.


Yes. This world is very grim.

I truly hope the next is as good as they promise believers.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby MOF » Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:44 pm

Unless one has lived for some time in both cultures any attempted dialogue or comment on life-philosophy issues is futile. The other party simply won't comprehend - in the fullest sense of the word - what you mean.
I don’t understand how the USA is happy to pay for education ‘for all’ as an ‘insurance’ policy which ensures that their society has an educated work force to create the goods and services that provide their wealth. Yet keeping those expensively educated people in good health is left to a largely private health and insurance sector.
I’ve never been to the states and frankly its abilities to take some sensible action on gun laws puts me off ever going.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:45 pm

hobbyist wrote:This world is very grim.

It is only ever what you make of it.

I enjoy my life very much. In my experience so far, the pleasures more than make up for the difficulties.

I truly hope the next is as good as they promise believers.

Are you sure you can trust 'them' and their promises? ;)

I'm busy making the very best of this one... :wave:
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby CS70 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:01 pm

hobbyist wrote:Yes. This world is very grim.

- "Am I dyin'?"
- YES
- "Will I die"?
- YES

:D
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby Mike Stranks » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:25 pm

hobbyist wrote:
Mike Stranks wrote:Deep breaths... count to 20... take stock...

I've never been to the States, but I do read a lot, watch 'sensible TV' documentaries and have conversed with many US citizens about socialism, government, self-help, charity, Christianity etc.

From those observations, conversations and recent posts in various threads here it's increasingly apparent to me how wide the gulf is in life-philosophies between the majority of people in the States and in the UK - and even more so in the Nordic countries.

Unless one has lived for some time in both cultures any attempted dialogue or comment on life-philosophy issues is futile. The other party simply won't comprehend - in the fullest sense of the word - what you mean.


Completely agree.

Excellent! I'd clearly misunderstood your posts and assumed you were talking about any system of Governmen., not just the one you have in the States.
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Re: Can someone still make it now? What are the odds? Mixerman says we are all hobbyists now.

Postby CS70 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:41 pm

Mike Stranks wrote:From those observations, conversations and recent posts in various threads here it's increasingly apparent to me how wide the gulf is in life-philosophies between the majority of people in the States and in the UK - and even more so in the Nordic countries.

Unless one has lived for some time in both cultures any attempted dialogue or comment on life-philosophy issues is futile. The other party simply won't comprehend - in the fullest sense of the word - what you mean.

It can be of some comfort that, while there are surely a lot of people who haven't a clue and don't want to (and often suffer of Dunning-Kruger), there's also large groups who understand and are genuinely interested in using the best of the two (or any, really) world views - on both sides of the Atlantic.

They are sometimes overshadowed by the quantity and cacophony of the former group, but they're still there, and do tend to get the upper hand in the end.. because reality always wins at some point, and the willingly clueless are always less well equipped to deal with it than those who aren't. Such is the history of humanity since its inception in the steppes some 20000 years ago. It can take a painful long time, admittedly..
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